Changes to our policies (updated)

Posted by Drew and Arash on July 01, 2011

Hi Dropboxers,

Today we revised our Terms of Service, Privacy Policy and Security Overview. We’re in the process of emailing every user to let you know about these changes. These updates are meant to make all our policies clearer and more transparent to you.

So what did we change?

First, we’ve made all three of these docs easier to read and understand. We worked hard to eliminate as much “legalese” as possible. We actually want you to read them!

Second, we’ve tried to make them better reflect a few important beliefs we have as a company by adding more detail on privacy and security. The trust placed in us by millions of people to keep their valuable data safe is the most important asset we have. Security is a responsibility we take very seriously and a topic we want users to understand. We also want users to understand that information about how people use Dropbox is really important to helping us build a better product. So, we believe you should know what data we collect and store, and we want to be upfront and honest about how we use it.

Here are a few changes we wanted to call out specifically:

1.) Encryption keys – Dropbox manages encryption keys for you. The reason is many of the most popular Dropbox features — like accessing your files from the website, creating file previews, and sharing files with other people — would either be impossible or would be much more cumbersome for users without this capability. But we’re also ok if you want to manage your own encryption by using products like TrueCrypt with Dropbox. We’ve discussed this publicly in the past, but we added this information to our security overview so it’s easy to find.

2.) Data practices – People love Dropbox because it lets them take their life’s work everywhere. And we want you to be in control of that work, including your decisions to delete it. So we added a section to our privacy policy to describe our data retention policies. If you delete your account, we try to delete your data quickly, but there are some rare cases where we can’t, which are outlined in the privacy policy.

3.) Location & log data – Data on how people use Dropbox helps us create a better user experience. We want to be clear about how we collect and use that data, so we’ve explained it in our privacy policy. For example, we collect information such as your country, operating system and the hardware ID from your device. This data allows us to optimize your experience for your device and language.

4.) De-duplication – We’re always working to make Dropbox more efficient. For example, we may de-duplicate files, which means we store only one copy of files or pieces of files that are the same. This has been discussed for a long time in our forums, in interviews and in response to user emails, but we want to spell it out further for you and have added it to our privacy policy.

5.) Mobile encryption – Your life should be as secure on the go as it is at your desk, so our goal is to encrypt all data transmitted to our mobile apps. For example, we’ve rolled out updates to our mobile apps last month that encrypt metadata during transmission. Not every mobile media player supports encrypted streams though, so we’ve changed our security overview to reflect that.

We’ve tried to present these three docs in plain language and hope that our edits have made them easier to read and understand. Please send us your feedback. All of us at Dropbox appreciate the trust you place in us.

We’ll continue to provide updates as we work to improve Dropbox.

[Update - 7/2] – We asked for your feedback and we’ve been listening. As a result, we’ve clarified our language on licensing:

You retain ownership to your stuff. You are also solely responsible for your conduct, the content of your files and folders, and your communications with others while using the Services.

We sometimes need your permission to do what you ask us to do with your stuff (for example, hosting, making public, or sharing your files). By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service. This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display, and operate the Services. You must ensure you have the rights you need to grant us that permission.

[Update 2 - 7/2] – An update based on your feedback:

One of the main reasons we updated our terms of service was to make them easier to read and understand. It seems we’ve mostly accomplished that, which we’re thrilled about.

Some of you have written us with very understandable concerns about the legal-sounding parts. In particular, our new TOS talks about the licenses we need to run Dropbox. We want to be 100% clear that you own what you put in your Dropbox. We don’t own your stuff. And the license you give us is really limited. It only allows us to provide the service to you. Nothing else.

We think it’s really important that you understand the license. It’s about the permissions you give us to run the service, things like creating public links when you ask us to, allowing you to collaborate with colleagues in shared folders, generating web previews or thumbnails of your files, encrypting files, creating backups… the basic things that make Dropbox safe and easy to use. Services like Google Docs and others do the same thing when they get these permissions (see, for example, section 11.1 of Google’s TOS).

We wish we didn’t have to use legal terms at all, but copyright law is complicated and if we don’t get these permissions in writing, we might be putting ourselves in a tough spot down the road. Not to bore you with the details, but please take a look at the license term in the TOS. We think it’s fair and strikes the right balance: “This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display, and operate the Services.”

We want to thank everybody who wrote in, understanding your concerns helps us make Dropbox better.

Drew & Arash

4,379 Comments to Changes to our policies (updated)

Dan C
July 1, 2011

Terms:
“The Services are not intended for use by you if you are under 13 years of age. By agreeing to these Terms, you are representing to us that you are over 13.”

Um, what if you are 13?  :)

Justin Verboncouer
July 1, 2011

You are exactly 13 years old for less than a nano-second.

Kemp
July 1, 2011

Cue “I can't believe they would do these things with my data” posts in 5… 4… 3…

David Robertson
July 1, 2011

Most people consider their age to be the floor function of their actual age.

DOD
July 1, 2011

Any new terms stating dropbox will regression test their platform in the future?
I feel the elephant in the room hasn't been formerly addressed yet.

Tjintoiu
July 2, 2011

stfu

Asdfafds
July 2, 2011

piss off

Asdfafds
July 2, 2011

piss off

Guest
July 2, 2011

I have a feeling that you don't really know what the word “regression test” means.

Dan C
July 2, 2011

Legally, one is thirteen for a full twelve months.  The terms should be modified to say “13 or older”.

Simone
July 2, 2011

You forgot in Privacy doc something like “we will be happy to share your data with anyone, even if they don't know your password”

Yourguide
July 2, 2011

I, for one, am really pleased with my dropbox service…. And if they should happen to increase my available space for free… That would be ok with me. ;)
Come on guys… Not ALL companies are out to enslave the worlds personal data for their own evil gain.

Yourguide
July 2, 2011

I, for one, am really pleased with my dropbox service…. And if they should happen to increase my available space for free… That would be ok with me. ;)
Come on guys… Not ALL companies are out to enslave the worlds personal data for their own evil gain.

Great Dilla
July 2, 2011

as long as functionality is not sacrificed for better security this is ok, i guess.

Miloš Hadžić
July 2, 2011

You mean the other way 'round, right?

Judah
July 2, 2011

These comments are currently the most entertaining read on the Internet!

John Saddington
July 2, 2011

killer. thanks for the update!

Anthony
July 2, 2011

Seriously? Come on man, if you're going to complain like this, go to a competitor's service. Dropbox has been great and there's no need for this.

Anthony
July 2, 2011

Do you realize how much pee would *actually* be required to do that?

Megan
July 2, 2011

So you'd rather be able to upload fast but have your stuff out there available for hacker to steal? That's clever I guess!

Chris Oliver
July 2, 2011

I have never read these documents in detail, so I do not know if this part has even been changed. Anyway, I have a problem with the last part of this statement:

“By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we
work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive,
royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare
derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of,
perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it
necessary for the Service.”

It's not that I believe anyone at Dropbox would, but technically, because of how it's worded, they could reproduce users' copyrighted works pretty much however they want as long as they “think it
necessary for the Service.” I understand that a service based on copying files requires a somewhat broad copyright license, but I also believe it should be limited more than just whatever Dropbox thinks is necessary. To be fair, this is certainly better than Facebook's IP License, which has no limits at all, but it could be better. I think even just changing it from “the extent we think it necessary” to “the extent that it is necessary” would be an improvement because it removes human opinion. Still, something more explicitly defined would be nice.

Yan Blossm
July 2, 2011

Love the service, thanks for the update and clarification.

Yan Blossm
July 2, 2011

Love the service, thanks for the update and clarification.

Peter Tuo
July 2, 2011

加油!来自China的忠实用户,支持你们~~

kinthiri
July 2, 2011

Wow. That someone should even suggest that, tongue in cheek or otherwise, scares the hell out of me.

Whats your hotmail/gmail/yahoo password? I can improve the functionality of those for you if you like.

James Johnson
July 2, 2011

I think Dropbox has blown already after it was revealed recently that they hand over your 'stuff' to the authorities when asked.

Noonien_Soong
July 2, 2011

If one were to be smart enough to store a worded document, they should encrypt that document in any various encryption schemes available for security sake. This can be done with pictures as well and encoded files too.

Randy Syring
July 2, 2011

I agree, the license they are asking for is incredibly broad.

cjwworld
July 2, 2011

that is the same stance any other cloud services you find out there, including SpiderOak,   All companies should abide by the law

Mark Mathson
July 2, 2011

Thanks for the simplification. Great service as always!

Thairan
July 2, 2011

I only use Drop Box to send files too big for gmail or yahoo. Half the time the urls to my public files are 'non-functional'……..I'm sure they would be 100% if i wasn't using the free account.  I'll keep looking for a service that works 100% of the time.

Not doing the facebook thing
July 2, 2011

That is the point of companies offering you awesome stuff for free: so they will know what you do and who you do it with, which is info they can use and sell now, and use and sell again later, because you keep building its value the more you use the awesome free stuff.

Sc
July 2, 2011

Why send out the email regarding the updates to the TOS at 8:30 PST on a Friday before a long weekend? Seems pretty shady to me.

Zo
July 2, 2011

It must be a plot.

Bas Msc
July 2, 2011

Great service you have!

But: “We may stop, suspend, or modify the Services at any time without prior notice to you. We may also remove any content from our Services at our discretion.”

Make sure you give people the time to copy their files before you stop your service as stated later on. Removing and deleting should be argued better, again stated later on. Which statement prevales? The more general of the latter two?

Thumbs up for trying to explain this to general public. That is hard to do or even impossible with some of the issues. This is a great attampt.

Thumbs up for your openness and readibility. Most issues are hard/impossible to explain to the general public; this is a great attempt!

Bas Msc
July 2, 2011

Add: “and in accordance with our privacy policy” is an option?

Fds
July 2, 2011

Abiding by the law is one thing (abiding by a warrant), but just handing over data because someone official asks for it? Not cool.

Bas Msc
July 2, 2011

… So they can read the blog in their spare time rather than when they work…

Nancy
July 2, 2011

Thanks for your update. I do have a question. As a business person on the go, I like to take my IPad with me so I don't have to lug around my laptop. I use Outlook 2010 on a Microsoft Exchange Server and I've noticed when saving my emails, I am not able to access them in DropBox. The extension on these saved files is .msg.

At times I can select to save in HTML, and when I am able to do this, i am able to read the, however, at times I am not given an option to save in anything but .msg, and when happens, I cannot open the file.

Is there another work around for this? Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

DoubtingThomas
July 2, 2011

Not all cloud services hold the decryption keys to allow them to see the contents of your files.

Guest
July 2, 2011

I believe that he does. They should have tested that a new update to their software didn't regress (i.e., introduce a bug) to allow anyone to log in to any account without a password before releasing said update to the public, which is exactly what happened.

To “regression test” means to test that things which work in the past still work after an update, even if the developer can't fathom that things could possibly break.

Also, “regression test” is two words.

Filip Bogaert
July 2, 2011

Please is there a dutch version for de people with who'm sharing my dropbox?

F.

FeRD
July 2, 2011

Oh, it's a fair dig. It certainly didn't read as “complaining” to me, so much as “a pointed (and snarky) reminder that they need to continue to keep their eye on the ball”. They _HAVE_ had some issues in the past, and they're going to keep taking some flak for it. The day we all decide to just pretend it never happened is the day we're practically begging for it to happen again.

Paul
July 2, 2011

thanks a lot good to know we are in good hands

and you make it simple 
thanks
paulMOGG

cjwworld
July 2, 2011

probably not but you seem to be convinced that Dropbox will just hand info over without any fight.  Not what they stated but you are entitled to your beliefs

Bear Grylls
July 2, 2011

All this talk of piss is making me thirsty…

SGE
July 2, 2011

Ok I agree.

Guest
July 2, 2011

I don't like the fact that they keep your machine ID. IP address, fine. Machine ID–too far.

Guest
July 2, 2011

Firefox sync does things a better way. They only know one user:password to control access to the data kept on their servers. They never take in hand your data's separate encryption key, that's generated and kept locally when you sign up. You move your encryption key to other computers on your account by hand, with a pairing process that keeps it off the cloud.

The consequence is that the server never has anything to hand over to the authorities on a double-secret warrant, and they have only encrypted data to leak if somebody hacks in. If, instead, the encryption itself is found to be flawed, then the attacker still needs your login password to get something to decrypt. Both measures have to fail before your data is compromised.

Jesse Litton
July 2, 2011

So it's okay for Dropbox to sell your novel as their own, as long as they crack the .zip password first?  I gotta say…  they should at least add “for so long as your files are hosted with our service”.

Teddy
July 2, 2011

Does this mean they can publish whatever I uploaded to DB without my permission?

Mark
July 2, 2011

Long weekend?.. what?.. why didn’t someone tell me about that?… or is that just for Alaskans?

Syed Shah28
July 2, 2011

i am using dropbox since 3 years and i hope i could get my file any time any where . i am sure that  i keep my document in safe box and hope i never lose it.

Guest
July 2, 2011

Oh, and try Boxcryptor's encryption software . It's more dropbox friendly than an encrypted ubër-image, and compatible with encfs on Mac and Linux.

Ollie
July 2, 2011

But unfortunately with boxcryptor you miss out on one of the most usefull dropbox features: versioning

iklock
July 2, 2011

That's so people like you will have time to read and absorb what they are trying to tell you. They are giving you a long week-end to do so. Be happy!

Leon
July 2, 2011

When they say Machine ID, do they mean the machine's model identifier or your MAC address (or maybe something else)?

Davidf Rosales
July 2, 2011

I wad waiting something like this! Since i read about your security problem Last week! I really like the service i think is great and work very nice is si useful so, i hope you will take the necesary actions yo keep us all secure! Trust in you guys!!! Do your best

Guest
July 2, 2011

Trust is the wrong word for dropbox.

Roland
July 2, 2011

If you value your data that much don't put it on the Internet anywhere, pure and simple.

If you value your data even more dint connect to the Internet

It's your choice

Edward2003
July 2, 2011

You wrote, “Half the time the urls to my public files are 'non-functional'.” That is because not all files are DIRECTLY downloadable.  You need to zip those files first, then they work.

Guest
July 2, 2011

If you have something to hide from the authorities (especially something that is expected to be handed over on a double-secret warrant), then keep it to yourself and off the cloud.

Bob
July 2, 2011

You people are stupid. don't you see what's happening? our rights are slowly being Stripped away.  

and it is not just with drop box.  

I will continue to use dropbox but will never ever post anything that is confidential, personal, or proprietary — as clearly there is no privacy any more

infowars.com

Frederic Treca
July 2, 2011

hello
Can you translate this text, i am french i wish understand …
Thank you

Bob
July 2, 2011

You people are stupid. don't you see what's happening? our rights are slowly being Stripped away.  

and it is not just with drop box.  

I will continue to use dropbox but will never ever post anything that is confidential, personal, or proprietary — as clearly there is no privacy any more

Vohaul
July 2, 2011

If you don't encrypt the file name BoxCryptor will support Dropbox versioning.

Joe Happy
July 2, 2011

Trust me (rather than dropbox!) – if the baddies got to Sony & Lockheed Martin, getting encryption keys from Dropbox will be like taking candy from a baby…

zenry
July 2, 2011

Lasciate pure che tutti dicano la loro, ma il fatto stesso che Vi commentino, significa che Vi trovano utili e quindi hanno tutti bisogno di Voi !!!!
zenry

megido
July 2, 2011

That's good.

megido
July 2, 2011

true.

Ben
July 2, 2011

I love Dropbox for the use of school and education parts, it's so easy to share data, stock bachelor works… No student can tell me anymore that he lost his work because of disccrash or anything. Its excellent. But it's clear that i wouldn't use it for confidential data, enterprise works, researchs or similar things….

Thura Mg
July 2, 2011

Great service…dropbox. Thanks.

Joao
July 2, 2011

***** is great, thanks

Support
July 2, 2011

There isn't any option. you collect our personal data. Sucks.

Marcus
July 2, 2011

thanks for letting us know how stupid we all are. thats just abusive and is not really clearing up the terms of use. so you'd rather clarify what's so wrong about it or just let it be.
a stupid user of dropbox

Word
July 2, 2011

word

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

Geez why all this negativity? I don't think calling the people at Dropbox stupid is very constructive. I don't see any constructive comments to Help the people at Dropbox make the system better and Roland is very correct ins saying “If you value your data that much don't put it on the Internet anywhere, pure and simple. If you value your data even more dint (sic) connect to the Internet **It's your choice**” My Emphasis.

All companies are bound by law -  and to be a little less constructive – get over it. I am certain that if any information has to be handed over to the Law then it must be thought of as illegal again as Roland said It's your choice.

I am not saying they (Dropbox) are perfect no one is but work with them. If you have an issue tell them but offer what you feel could be a helpfull solution.

Comments
July 2, 2011

So stop using it, and stop whinging

Test
July 2, 2011

Get a proper english education system in your country! Move on with the rest of the world…

11802pmo
July 2, 2011

Good service.

Angus
July 2, 2011

Why be such a dick! Fredric, Test is an asshole. Ignore it.

Yawar Amin
July 2, 2011

You can easily ensure that you're the only one who has the decryption key to your files. Use a TrueCrypt volume inside your DropBox folder.

Lazza
July 2, 2011

I'm not sure but probably it's the hostname or some other “internal” identifier Dropbox gives to that PC.

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

Very constructive…not! Answers simple don't use it.

No
July 2, 2011

What a nice attitude in this forum…

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

Unfortunately the world is full of Bob's – all mouth and no trousers ;-)

Murat Sezgin
July 2, 2011

great services. many thanks

Lazza
July 2, 2011

“but will never ever post anything that is confidential, personal, or proprietary”

Were you really doing that, before? Oh my……
Dropbox is a cloud service: it means you allow them to host your files! If there's something so confidential, just don't upload it.
It is a tool meant to simplify your life, not to let you work as a CIA agent.

Thligot
July 2, 2011

ok good service

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

Not only is the world full of Bob's its full of people like Test – a typical xenophobe

Vincent Voois
July 2, 2011

The new terms don't seem to be a real problem. I could understand that deduplication in some cases could cause irritations if certain files have to be around in multiple folders for certain applications to work. But i suspect people should then simply archive those projects instead of dumping them unpacked in Dropbox.

DOD
July 2, 2011

Thank you Guest.

Guest
July 2, 2011

Thanks – such a great service that shows the value of the cloud.

john
July 2, 2011

sono contento per questi cambiamenti.

Matt
July 2, 2011

Thanks for a clean, good plain english summary. ITs all and everything we need.

Matt
http://www.s3d.co.uk

Pierre
July 2, 2011

I don't have any skills with Outlook, Nancy, but wouldn't it be possible to export your emails in plain text ? Is there an menu command that reads “Export” instead of “Save” ? Or is it possible to choose “.txt” or “.rtf” when you save your emails ? Dropbox can read .txt or .rtf files, 100% guaranteed. Hope this helps.

Thairan
July 2, 2011

I tried the 'zip' thing….funny, the files are the same size zipped as the original…..and i have NEVER had an upload complete on the first attempt. Could have something to do with the quality of a free account v.s. paid????

Lazza
July 2, 2011

I have a free account, it works very good for ZIPs and all other extensions. Maybe it's your connection (for the upload thing).

Mark the Webalyst
July 2, 2011

Clearly DropBox could address the privacy concerns raised in earlier comments – the ones with most 'Likes'!

One reason they choose instead to compromise our privacy (by not filtching your encryption keys, unlike FireFox) might be performance, but other cloud file sharers manage it. To store your machine identity is a more serious invasion of privacy even than IP storage, but neither are necessary for the purpose stated because they could instead generate an anonymous id either related to your account, or stored in a cookie.
 
So, those of us who think our privacy is important have to ask ourselves: given that they don't make these issues paramount, when clearly they could, do we want to trust DropBox as a company? There is only one answer!
 
Oh, and by the way, their UI isn't as good as rival services anyway. I've never understood why people rave about DropBox. I think it must be the name. IMO the UI sucks more than their attitude to my privacy.
 
I sense a blog post in this comment – so I explicity assert and retain my copyright (c) theWebalyst.com 2011, while granting DropBox a non-transferrable license to display this post as a comment on this blog, but for no other purpose! :-P
 
Mark
http://theWebalyst.com

Calle Wolff
July 2, 2011

Why don't you post this question in the support forums instead. I'm sure you will get great help there as more people (and the Dropbox team) hang out there.

Dropbox synchronizes files. It doesn't care about the content. However, I guess there's a filter that skips files with known “temporary” extensions like .tmp. Maybe .msg is included?Good luck!

Anil Goyal
July 2, 2011

Well SC, this TOS applies to all not to only Americans who have a long weekend. if you do not know already, there are people (and Dropboxers) who live outside of US also.

Haddon Davies
July 2, 2011

Jeez, some people are so far up themselves they must never see daylight….. Dropbox is a great service – it helps my business & doesn't cost me a bean. What more do you want? Oh & you can make what use you like of my post. Thanks.

Seedcorn
July 2, 2011

Try @medialightbox. Great service for sending big files

Anthony Diaz
July 2, 2011

Keep up the good work guys. An thanks for the easy to read summary of the changes, most people don't bother reading long and winding documents.

Fdiezriv
July 2, 2011

Good service

Malcolm J
July 2, 2011

Dropbox enables me to work from ANYWHERE. I use it on THREE different machines and they are all kept up-to-date. I also have SEPARATE SHARED folders with four clients in different parts of the world so we can keep joint files up-to-date. I use only 3mb of my 50mb but I am happy to pay the fee. It saves me hours and hours and my working life would just not be possible now without it. BRILLIANT SERVICE! … and those who don't like it are free to go and find one of these “rival services”.

Spahalde
July 2, 2011

“If you delete your account, we try to delete your data quickly, but there
are some rare cases where we can’t, which are outlined in the privacy
policy.” -> So which cases are these?

“For example, we collect information such as your country, operating system and the hardware ID from your device.” -> Is this really necessary, and why? Can I opt out of this?

You promise to be more transparent: then walk the talk!

Nizar
July 2, 2011

Great service. Your honesty rocks!

francesca
July 2, 2011

Frederic Treca you should learn french and italian so good as we can use your language! You are able to use dropbox – which provides very clear tools- just because you read it in english!

Ilovejunk
July 2, 2011

Read the documents. This post is just a summary.

Haribu
July 2, 2011

Yes we will trust a random on a comment feed. What encryption was broken with Sony?
Unless I'm mistaken the reason Sony were slammed so much is that they didn't encrypt the databases which once the crackers had access could just copy and open.

If you think it's like taking caddy from a baby please do so and then teach dropbox a lession.

I doubt you will as like most people who think cracking a system is 'easy' you lack the skills and inclination.

mike
July 2, 2011

don't assume that because I live in Spain I want my interface in Spanish. And if I choose to load dropbox in English, don't change it to Spanish, just because I live here. Ask me.

Silverio Delarosa
July 2, 2011

perfect service Dropbox thanks I love it…….

Piste1
July 2, 2011

i like it!

skarn86
July 2, 2011

Actually… The bonus space through referrals that dropbox gives would not be possible without collecting the unique id of your machine. One could simply create more and more accounts on the same machine to collect the exrta space.

And BTW, most alternatives to dropbox lack the same availability across multiple devices.

As a GNU/Linux user that routinely shares folders with Windows and Mac/OS users, this is a key feature to me.

TazR6
July 2, 2011

I am off. Deleting my account. Why would I want them snooping through the files I truest them with, and maybe even share my stuff with third parties? The answer is I don't.
Unbelievable that people are accepting these TOS.

Cris
July 2, 2011

Drew and Arash have been clear, concise and open as usual. Good on you guys. Have used Dropbox for years; brilliant concept, well executed. We all work remotely within our company and this allows all base docs and 'unclassified' (to use the military term for stuff that isn't sensitive or confidential) contract or research material to be shared and accessible anywhere. As often working over intermittent connections in remote areas, we have to be disciplined enough not to put single large docs up (compressed or sub-divided) so can work in the background seamlessly. Can't understand any whining negativity, especially on the confidentiality issue; part of our work is in the security sector and, as stated by others below, people should assume that anything sent over a standard internet connection can be made visible to lawful authorities and all service providers are required to comply.  Western nations have a firm set of guidelines; the rest of the world does not. Golden rule is that anything sensitive or confidential should NEVER be published over a standard internet connection; if you do, assume that someone other than yourself or the intended recipient will, or at least could, read it at some stage. Some of the illegal activity you hear about and a vast amount you don't is discovered and dealt with effectively by lawful authorities on our behalf this way and we can sleep more soundly as a result. Civil liberties are fine but only when balanced by civil responsibility.

Lazza
July 2, 2011

Unbelievable that a company offering a service based on copying files (and publishing them, if you use shared folders and/or public links) asks you the permission of copying files and publishing them.

It would be like going to a barber and knowing that he wants to use a razor on you. Oh yes man, this is really unbelievable!

Dirtydevil
July 2, 2011

I welcome the updated clarity and the honesty. There is no one who has security 100% right. The best we can hope for is few surprises, good communication of problems and honesty with the technical stuff

ttaM
July 2, 2011

Quit spamming you fucking cunt.

StnemmoC
July 2, 2011

Whinging? What the fuck is “whinging”?

2toirreH
July 2, 2011

Way to contribute to the conversation! Not.

2toirreH
July 2, 2011

Bob's what? Oh shit, here comes an 's'!

paula
July 2, 2011

Eu uso o dropbox e tenho já recomendado a outras pessoas.
Tenho é pena de não conseguir perceber o que realmente mudou.
Espero que este serviço nunca acabe.

C naD
July 2, 2011

13 is definitely not legal.

macik
July 2, 2011

а на русском религия не позволяет?

babs
July 2, 2011

thanks for your attempts at helping secure transmissions

Piebeck
July 2, 2011

I quitted because it was not in dutch language. Sorry

EL Barsko
July 2, 2011

I like Bropbox.

nikolaykhodov
July 2, 2011

они же америкосы

Flemming
July 2, 2011

Agree

macik
July 2, 2011

это не причина.

nikolaykhodov
July 2, 2011

почему? английский – самый распространненый в инете. Dropbox – американская компания.

Alibek DATBAYEV
July 2, 2011

that's great!

Dcraig
July 2, 2011

Wonderful service! Very pleased with it so far!

Gulliver
July 2, 2011

Could someone clarify this part for me? “you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it necessary for the Service”

Especially in regards to the Privacy policy part where it says that Dropbox staff only have access to filenames etc excepting legal situation.

They are able to use “our” files as necessary, but will be violating their own privacy agreement if they do so?

Pedavidsz
July 2, 2011

verry good! safety first!
Thanks!

Chucksullivan61
July 2, 2011

Love Dropbox! Use it multiple time each week for my business. Any upgrades to security and usability are certainly welcome.

Lazza
July 2, 2011

The fact that you give them the permission to copy the files doesn't mean it has to be done by a human.

The Cat
July 2, 2011

Spoken like/by an outcompeted competitor ^^.

Mcjaded1
July 2, 2011

Well I will be setting up truecrypt. But when I create my 1gb encrypted container and add a 11k file to it. Now that entire file 1gb will have to be synced. Seems like alot of overhead on dropbox.

After your update that turned off authentication I no longer trust drop box with anything more then random bits. I was going get the 50gb plan. But if i have to pre encryption my data in batches just to Get my filees to sync at a decent speed I am all set.

Amazon S3 wins for me

Love your features dropbox but they are not worth the risk.

A pre encrytion option would be great. Doesn't have to be the entire container just a special lockbox folder salted with a pass phase I provide that stays ONLY client side.

N0prst
July 2, 2011

Не нравится – не пользуйтесь.

dictionary
July 2, 2011

whinge [wɪndʒ] Informal
vb whinges, whingeing, whinged (intr)
1. to cry in a fretful way
2. to complain
n
a complaint
[from a Northern variant of Old English hwinsian to whine; related to Old High German winsan, winisan, whence Middle High German winsen]
whingeing  n & adj
whinger  n
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

Monica
July 2, 2011

Thank you Drew and Arash for being so transparent about Dropbox's features.
Dropbox has certainly made my life of the Net easier. I am no longer scared of losing data as I know it is safe in Dropbox.

Christian
July 2, 2011

Looove Dropbox!

Racudal
July 2, 2011

Thank you for these info and doing your best to improve things. Appreciate it very much. May the Lord continue to give you the wisdom in improving your product and service. Shalom.

Me and my clients have been using Dropbox since early 2010, and it has never let us down.

Thanks for posting the summaries and putting customers first.  Keep up with the good work!

Mybetrayal
July 2, 2011

Thank you – the de-duplicate feature, will it be able to use a symbolic link to the single stored file in separate locations? I use dropbox for sharing some of my code with friends, so I have some reusable files?

Stephen Rice
July 2, 2011

They didn't state they wouldn't fight to keep data safe but, to be honest, I don't really expect Dropbox to actively fight to keep my data private. It just doesn't seem worth the hassle for them — they can't have that many lawyers on staff.

Oliver N
July 2, 2011

From the Data Retention part of the Privacy Policy:

“… we will try to delete your information quickly upon request. Please note, however, that there might be latency in deleting information from our servers and backed-up versions might exist after deletion.”

So basically no time limit as to exactly how long you can keep my data on your servers. Wow. That just means “we'll never delete it, and you can't complain” … That's nasty!!!

Zengrits
July 2, 2011

Dropbox is at the top of my list of essentials, along with food, electricity, an Internet connection and plumbing. Thanks for the great service that you provide. I have confidence that you'll do everything possible to protect my data.

Krsattler
July 2, 2011

Gentlemen,

As I read yout TOS under privacy, if you deem it necessary for the Service , you have gained the rights to make all of my content public, sell the rights to a third party (sub license) to do whatever they want with my “Stuff”

I hope that I have read that wrong, but the wording is very, very broad.

I have asked my IT attorney to review this and if my reading is correect, I will reluctantly withdraw from Dropbox

Stephen Rice
July 2, 2011

Is it still an elephant in the room if only person thinks it's an elephant in the room?

ediz2
July 2, 2011

Excellent service!

Albert
July 2, 2011

EXCELLENT SERVICE! and Thank you

loek alders
July 2, 2011

Oke for me

Keith
July 2, 2011

Encrypt prior to upload. Problem solved.

macik
July 2, 2011

вообще про “нравится” не кто не говорил! Dropbox отличная штука! Разговор идет оп предоставлени лицензионного соглашения на русском!

Mark Earnest
July 2, 2011

Look, I enjoyed your service, but your recent security incident is just unforgivable. For anyone to be able to log in and view anyone else's files without requiring a password for several hours is not acceptable and it demonstrates a seriously lack of source code control, review, and testing. For a company to be this irresponsible and immature with their primary product makes it sound like it is run by a couple of kids following no (or poor) established processes. Something like that should not be possible.

In fact, if dropbox was architected to not store the encryption keys locally (like many of your competitors are able to do without any of the problems you seem to indicate prevent you from doing so), then this COULD not have happened and we could be assured it would never happen again. It is long past time to admit you made a mistake with your security architecture and change it instead of trotting out weak excuses. Why would I want to use truecrypt on top of dropbox when I could just use a competitor that did security right the first time?

Widarski
July 2, 2011

love dropbox, it has made working my business not only easier but possible!!!
Thankyou for such an easy workable service.

Jose Llibre
July 2, 2011

Excellent !!!

Simone
July 2, 2011

I too don't like/understand this:
“By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we
work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive,
royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare
derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of,
perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it
necessary for the Service.”

Chris
July 2, 2011

Bingo!

Peter Turner
July 2, 2011

Use axcrypt on a file by file basis and virtually all of these paranoid objections go away.

Peter

cjwworld
July 2, 2011

They didn't state that here but at the forums.  Anyhow, really no difference at any other cloud services.  As many professionals has stated, do not save sensitive information in any cloud services

Bla
July 2, 2011

Oh my god, you have separate shared folders! On three pc's!11 So impressive, use more caps please!

Murad Qasimov
July 2, 2011

Radio NEXT FM Internet radio http://nextfm.tk

Murad Qasimov
July 2, 2011

Radio NEXT FM Internet radio http://nextfm.tk

David O'Toole
July 2, 2011

How do you even know that your users are empowered to grant you any rights whatsoever as regards derivative works? A creative-commons licensed work that doesn't allow remixes would be perfectly legal to upload to Dropbox; but that user cannot “consent” to grant you rights they never possessed.

I've seen the behavior of dropbox, and the words of dropbox folk who posted on Hacker News in response to their fake DMCA notice a while back, and I am telling absolutely everyone I know who uses dropbox (which is a bunch of people) to stop using Dropbox.

Tim
July 2, 2011

@9ae7c2641396f254519ccdfdd36b7e47:disqus  - the key to the text is “non-exclusive” – generally this grants the nonexclusive rights to display the material on a Web site. It also allows the licensee (ala DropBox) to let their Web site to use, manage, display [etc].

It's a fairly standard contractual term now days – for example see

http://www.youtube.com/t/terms at 6 C.

“For clarity, you retain all of your ownership rights in your Content. However, by submitting Content to YouTube, you hereby grant YouTube a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable and transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, publish, adapt, make available online or electronically transmit, and perform the Content in connection with the Service ….”

Generally, the language uses “non-exclusive” in it's context which is OK. It basically allows internet services to be internet services 

i.e. if they didn't have a non-exclusive licence, how could they use your files, which have your copyright in their services ? – they couldn't :) By asking for a non-exclusive licence, it means you are permitting DropBox to use it for the purposes of 

“worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it necessary for the Service.”

If you're uncomfortable with this term, then unfortunately you'll be uncomfortable using any service on the Internet as it's generally required to provide a service :)

David O'Toole
July 2, 2011

In a nutshell—Dropbox will probably find itself sued if they try to monetize your files by creating derivative works. In fact, perhaps people will seed Dropbox with files licensed in exactly the manner I described, wait until Dropbox produces a derivative work, and then sue dropbox out of existence.

Tim Davis
July 2, 2011

david – as with youtube, a “remix” in this sense does not necessarily constitute a derivative work. For example, compressing a file to a new format for storage is a derivative work – compressing a file, merging it with another documet, and saving it in a singular form is a remix – since the content has been “remixed”.

Don't stress out too much :) DropBox is still +1

David O'Toole
July 2, 2011

A lot of the comments here of the “thanks for being so *BUZZWORD* about Dropbox, I find Dropbox to be a really *BUZZWORD* service for achieving my *BUZZWORDS*.” sounds like people from Dropbox are posting fake positive comments.

Gus_cento
July 2, 2011

Totally agree. I would like to give us more free space, if possible!!!

Sally
July 2, 2011

This is absurd. Lawyers gone overboard. Droopbox, please wise up and remove this crazy point from your TOS.

Miawe
July 2, 2011

Exactly. I'm gonna be closing my account too.

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

I love Dropbox and i am not an employee of the company!

Outtoplay
July 2, 2011

Based on what?  This sort of blind adoration is what gets folks in trouble. Not saying there is an issue with DB, they service is fine… but to simply be confident they are 100% in your corner, even in the face of competing interests (like making more money), is…well, sorta naive.

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

Answers simples don't use the service. Ho Hum.

Yoav Givati
July 2, 2011

Encryption is meaningless if you have the key. JungleDisk lets you browse your files online.
All you have to do is generate a file that is downloaded and decrypted on the client which contains all the filenames.It would be totally transparent to the user, you guys are full of shit for saying otherwise.

As for sharing, you could have a separate key for specific folders, which you tell the person you're sharing the folder with, and voila you can both decrypt it.

Sharing photos and publicly? just have those folders not be encrypted in the first place.

Stop being idiots and fix the fucking problem.

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

lol…okay okay Bobs :-)

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

Do you *really* need to swear? Couldn't you just use WTF? Of course not that would mean taking others into account and we can't have that can we?

David O'Toole
July 2, 2011

“You must ensure you have the rights you need to grant us that permission.”
That due diligence is the responsibility of Dropbox.

LKM
July 2, 2011

From the TOS:

“By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it necessary for the Service.”

Is this some kind of joke?

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

Quote <oh, <br=”" and=”" anyway.=”" as=”" by=”" good=”" isn't=”" rival=”" services=”" the=”" their=”" ui=”" way,=”">I've never understood why people rave about DropBox. I think it must
be the name. IMO the UI sucks more than their attitude to my privacy.> Unquote

IMHO -I have never understood why people like spinach (Ise undertsands how popeye likes it), I have never undertstood why people like American Football (booooring), Cricket (even more booooring), Baseball (or as we know it in the UK rounders). It's all very strange eh? maybe it's got something to do with a phrase known as horses for courses.

Personally I don't how much more simpler than just dragging a file from my desktop or phone or some other place to my dropbox it can get!</oh,>

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

don't know what happend to the first line above it should read:

Oh, and by the way, their UI isn't as good as rival services anyway.

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

Good grasp of the English language – Not

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

methinks its walk the walk! i may be wrong

Ejxits
July 2, 2011

Yes, except I expect youtube to distribute my video to others… I do not expect dropbox to distribute my files to others.  That change is troubling at the very least.  If I am going to remain a confident user of dropbox they should change that clause.

Brewsterbarr
July 2, 2011

And your reason for talking like “trailer trash”?????

Jr
July 2, 2011

Bye bye Dropbox!

Cherru
July 2, 2011

I can't agree with you more.

It's frustrating reading all of these post about how DropBox should fight to protect our files, and security this, protection that.

Nothing is ever going to be 100% secure, and a company's number one reason for existence is to make profit, regardless of what mission statement they may have.

I love DropBox. It makes life so much easier for me when it comes to moving files around for school or personal projects which are too large to send through email, or files that I need multiple people to use. Just upload it and poof, done.

I would never put anything on DropBox that I didn't potentially want someone else (anyone else) to have or use.

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

au revoir mes ami

spinchange
July 2, 2011

It's a common PR tactic in Western business & media communications to release to controversial news, make changes, and generally do anything that might raise PR concern on a Friday, and especially on a Friday before a holiday. That's what the parent was referring to. The western world where drop box is based and obstensibly where the majority of its investors are.

spinchange
July 2, 2011

It's a common PR tactic in Western business & media communications to release to controversial news, make changes, and generally do anything that might raise PR concern on a Friday, and especially on a Friday before a holiday. That's what the parent was referring to. The western world where drop box is based and obstensibly where the majority of its investors are.

Ned
July 2, 2011

I've used Drop Box for years…a lifesaver for getting big files transferred to friends/clients…it's a great service. Regarding the negative comments re: privacy, if you don't want someone to see it, don't use any cloud service, including dropbox. And, be respectful, please…this is a public forum. Thanks!

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

Au revoir

TK
July 2, 2011

So wait, if we upload things to Dropbox, you can not only get into my files, but display them as you wish? And you can give your subsidiaries that right without notice?

Yeah, so long, Dropbox.

TK
July 2, 2011

Exasperation at this damage control? The earlier outright lies where Dropbox said they couldn't access your files?

I'm in agreement with him. There's no reason that one-way encryption couldn't be done.

Herriot2
July 2, 2011

I have posted on this blog post about my satisfaction with Dropbox and its excellent service but this is an extrememly good point that Outtoplay is making. Thanks outtoplay very constructive reply (take note people – especially those whose language skills (in the use of curse words) are severely lakcing

Rick Vidallon
July 2, 2011

Have you guys lost your friggin minds… Time to 'drop' Drop Box. Maybe it should be renamed 'Flop Box'. Cya.

Nobody
July 2, 2011

This giving you licensed usage of our “stuff” is bullsh**! im leaving!

Ricardo Vidallon
July 2, 2011

Hey Ned. I TOTALLY AGREE. Using Cloud based services as the backbone of your company communications is bad business. It's akin to being a 'Web Tenant' versus a 'Web Owner'. ( He who owns the digital property calls the shots. PERIOD )

Haui
July 2, 2011

“prepare
derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or
publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it necessary for the
Service.”

To me this really sounds unreasonable and unnecessary and is most likely
frightening for many users. This should be replaced with some reasonable
wording which restores trust.

WE LOVE PRIVACY!!
July 2, 2011

This worries me..  I have used this service for the past 3 years and have found it a very useful way to store important files online.  However, the ability of Dropbox to use my personal files for whatever uses they wish is very worrying.  If for example I was working on some sort of project Dropbox will now essentially own that project??  Is there a way around this?  I have paid for the service on the basis of the previous terms and conditions [that I alone own the files] do I now get a refund that the contract has changed?

I think this is the end of my relationship with dropbox…

Anonymous
July 2, 2011

I am extremely dissapointed that a company such as Dropbox appears to be taking user/data privacy so lightly. 

I am a paid Dropbox user and will be terminating my account as I feel combine this attitude with the recent events of having every Dropbox account accessible without a password by one small program change proves to me that Dropbox is no place for anyone's information.

Other applications provide these same services with proper security, Dropbox should be ashamed.

H D Kock
July 2, 2011

Graag in het Nederlands
translate in Dutch,please

Paulo
July 2, 2011

First you modified my system files without my consent or even notice, then you left my files unprotected for more than four hours, and now this. No thanks. I have already deleted my account.

Patrick Allmond
July 2, 2011

more information on this please. Is there a place I can read about this?

Jason A. Quest
July 2, 2011

Your lawyers probably suggested this overly broad claim of rights as a buffer to protect you from spurious claims of infringement.  However, while *some* of those rights are in fact necessary for you to provide the service that we signed up for, several of them are not.  They also flatly contradict your claims to respect our privacy, which could render this entire TOS unenforceable.  If you consult with some tech-savvy lawyers who specialize in something other than ass-covering, I believe you'll find that they agree.  (Hiring lawyers who don't rely so much on copy-pasting boilerplate might be a good idea too.)

I expressly deny you the right to prepare translations of my stuff, to perform my stuff, or to publicly display my stuff.

cc: Your legal department

Kajdun
July 2, 2011

I´m a paying user. at first, everyone could log on to my dropboy account with any pass (WOW!), and now this. i quit! anyways, dropbox`s nothing else than just rsync + amazon

Mohawke
July 2, 2011

I agree with Ned, if you don't want someone to see it, don't use ANY cloud service. Actually, if you're serious about privacy, get off the Internet in general, but honestly people, if you're not doing anything wrong and you're not storing bank numbers or socials, get over yourself, you are not that interesting and the ad people already got you covered. Oh, and yes, you're already in Whitspages (intelius), Pipl, or Spokeo and likely using the worst of them all, Facebook.

Seventh Reign
July 2, 2011

Seriously people,  I dont care how Fort Knox secure a service is, if you dont want people to see it DONT PUT IT IN A CLOUD STORAGE!  I use Dropbox to transfer files between dozens of computers, and to save a few files that I dont feel like wasting a CD/DVD or space on my HDD.  Security and Encryption mean nothing for my files, anyone that wants them are more than welcome too them.

Jere
July 2, 2011

The fact that you allow comments here is a good thing. The following (as quoted earlier) disturbs me, though. How about explaining the rationale behind such a seemingly piratical requirement.

Also, I should say that I am using the free service at the moment, and such a requirement will prevent me from ever becoming a paid subscriber, at least so long as it is in place. I'm going to keep an open mind, however, and hope that this will change soon.

“By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we
work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive,
royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare
derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of,
perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it
necessary for the Service.”

Tim Davis
July 2, 2011

@e6ba74c996c8725aa33112117113cadc:disqus no – they really don't have too change this clause. The terms agreement incorporates their Privacy Agreement – thus meaning they still owe you the obligations outlined in their privacy clause. They cannot distribute your content without your permission.

Tim Davis
July 2, 2011

Again, i'm unclear of the problem here. If you upload illegal content you are suggesting that DropBox must ascertain that the content is illegal ?

“You must ensure you have the rights you need to grant us that permission.”

You must ensure you can enable the rights on content you upload – if you don't have the rights then why are you uploading it ?

Franberger
July 2, 2011

.” By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it necessary for the Service.”

This is non-sense. I ll look for another safe provider

Mark Earnest
July 2, 2011

To me it indicates you are giving Dropbox the rights to distribute your content, so if you yourself do not have the right to distribute (or the right to grant that right to others) then you shouldn't upload it.

IE, no more using dropbox for MP3s you rip from your CDs or AACs you purchase from iTunes.

Brian
July 2, 2011

I have to second that, I am not interested in granting Dropbox license to the files I store in my dropbox folder.

Philip
July 2, 2011

“By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us worldwide, non-exclusive,
royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare
derivative works of,
perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it
necessary for the Service.”

This is really inbelievable !
and be carreful :

“You must ensure you have the rights you need
to grant us that permission.”

My decision is made, I left.
Bye

Msb05001
July 2, 2011

Hi Jere,

I fully agree — why would I want to allow DropBox to publicly display “worldwide” my private documents just because I used their service to transmit them?  Shameful.

Mark

Jere
July 2, 2011

Actually, I've rethought this. The “we own your stuff” requirement is far too egregious to just keep an open mind and hope for the best. If it does not change immediately – I mean like in the next 2 or 3 days, then I will leave as well. So, losing a free account – no big, right? Well, right, but that's not all I will do. I will write a review of Dropbox at every site I can find that will accept it, and I encourage everyone else to do the same. Let's give them a few days and then, if they do not act to change this barbaric term, let's take action.

This was an arrogant and bone-headed move, but the fact that you allow this discussion here shows that you do have some good instincts. So, let those good instincts lead you in this as well, and, if you do, you will change this immediately. I'm looking forward to your next email, but, in the meantime, I will be evaluating other services. Not something I wanted to do, but it looks as if I must.

Jason A. Quest
July 2, 2011

There's nothing wrong with the “non-exclusive” bit; that's just a basic and necessary requirement of putting your files on their system, because you might also put them on some other storage system.

The problem is (roughly) the last half of that paragraph, which probably was lifted from YouTube, which is a huge blunder.  YouTube needs the right to perform and publicly display your files because that's what it's primary use is.  DropBox's primary use is fundamentally different: to display those files only to the people you specify.

Brian
July 2, 2011

I do not like your terms and service, but I now finally understand them and I give you kudos  for that, I will be giving SugarSync a extra look now though.

John
July 2, 2011
Florin
July 2, 2011

good bye, Dropbox.

Tim Davis
July 2, 2011

@6713b26393651fce0610ee4b180aab4b:disqus Again, you are giving them to non-exclusive right. If you have MP3 music [legally obtained for example] – you have ownership for that file. You are provided with the right to store that file for personal use just as you have the right to share that file with your friends. The rights associated with this file are governed by the terms of service when you purchased that file [i.e. iTunes].

You are providing DropBox with a non-exclusive right – not an “exclusive right” – to be able to storage, transform … etc that file. The Privacy policy is incorporated within the Terms agreement – thereby inferring they cannot “distribute your content without your consent”.

Jason A. Quest
July 2, 2011

Unlike the rights-grabbing clause, this one is legally sound.  They are recognizing a technological limitation, which they need to allow for in their TOS.  But if you can show in court that they did not (as the TOS asserts) make an effort to delete your data quickly, but instead “just never deleted it”, they will be screwed.

Haui
July 2, 2011
Josefsyl
July 2, 2011

There is such a thing as the US copy right law.  You guys at Drop box are dealing with copy righted information.  The rights that a talent may have agreed to on a photo shoot or other things did not include your right to use them however you want to. You are placing an author of images or written words into jeopardy if a talent sees a photo of themselves in a bad light or one they simply did not agree to.  They will go back to the photographer or author with a lawyer.  I agree with others that I state here that you have absolutely no rights to reproduce ANYTHING  on my dropbox for ANY REASON.  In fact, Im going to stop using your service.
done.  I advise other artists to consider these possibilities also.  There are other ways to transfer info and images.

Ggeraci
July 2, 2011

Thanks for the easy to read instructions.

Nick Firth
July 2, 2011

Good riddance to the people who are leaving – more bandwidth for the rest of us. They talk about their privacy as if they're MI6 spooks.

Nothing in the cloud is safe – get over yourselves.

Modat
July 2, 2011

So we're bringing back “not” as an interjection?

Jason A. Quest
July 2, 2011

Basically their legal team may have just made their TOS self-contradictory and therefore (quite possibly) unenforceable.

Haui
July 2, 2011

Apparently this wording was always there, dp claims to “need it to provide the great service”. Still this does not make sense. Read the respective terms of SygarSync and you see the difference.

I would advise the dp team to immediately change this.

JDaRknight
July 2, 2011

Good work, now you have lost a client and give it to spideroak

Alexis Caceda
July 2, 2011

A change
of the TOS just right after you've had one of the biggest issues in your
company history is not the right thing to do. It feels like you are trying to
hide from the problems and safe yourself with some legal terms. The only thing
you proved by trying to push the new TOS is that you have the ability to
contact all your customers through e-mail. I think we all are seeking for the
answers to this two questions:

 

A) Why haven't
I received any e-mail from Dropbox explaining what exactly happened and what's going
to be done to avoid this in future?

 

B) What
will you do to enhance your crisis communication in order that a next time you
know how to communicate to your customers?

 

I expect
to receive an e-mail from the Dropbox CEO where he answers to questions above by
making transparent and apologizing statements. Based on that I will decide if I
stay or leave Dropbox.

Jason A. Quest
July 2, 2011

No, it's more like going to a barber and being surprised that he not only intends to cut your hair and give you a shave, but he *also* wants the right to sell the clippings to witch doctors and the FBI so they can make magical totems with it and add your DNA to their database.  (I'll leave it up to you to figure out which party would do which thing. :) )

Jonathan
July 2, 2011

To those of you who are getting hysterical about the licensing rights in the terms of service: it's clear from the context (i.e. the sentences before and after) are to enable dropbox to follow *your* instructions about copying files and (when you want them to making files public) — not to take your files and make them public for their own purposes.  Nature of the service means that dropbox needs the right to make copies of your files onto their servers, backup servers, etc.  If you make a file public, then they need a license from you to publish the file.  If the file you've published has a performance on it, you need to give them the rights to that.   To have the right to do any of these things, they have to think it is necessary for the Service.  (They could have just said necessary for the service, but doing so would open dropbox to liability from someone who thought that a particular use wasn't “necessary.”)

what
July 2, 2011

I bet the owners of Spideroak is seeing dollar signs now.

Morph
July 2, 2011

From SugarSync's T&C;
“ Accordingly, you hereby grant to SugarSync a license: (i) to use, copy, transmit, distribute, store and cache Files that you choose to sync and/or store; and (ii) to copy, transmit, publish, and distribute to others the Files as you designate, whether through the sharing or public linking features of the Service, in each case solely to provide the Service to you.”

Jason A. Quest
July 2, 2011

The cases in which they can't delete your data aren't that difficult to think of.  Like if the system is down, the data's going to sit there until they get it working again.

The hardware id is essential; it's how they know which computer has which files.
The operating system may not be essential for them to store, but they need to know it every time you synch for the software to operate appropriately.
The country… I don't know, but it probably assists them in optimizing the speed of the service in various locations, and they presumably use it to make assumptions about what language you prefer.  Maybe not essential, but (unlike the unjustifiable rights grab) it has a reasonable basis.

Mike
July 2, 2011

I think what this is trying to say is that if Dropbox came up with a feature that like enabled display of your photos in a public album that you set up, that you give them permission to do whatever wizardry is needed on your uploads to help that come about. Seriously people are overreacting here – it doesn't mean Dropbox will comb through your files and randomly display them to the public somewhere.

Tim Davis
July 2, 2011

@facebook-100000875744905:disqus sure Jason – as I stated below – the terms agreement incorporates their Privacy Agreement – thus meaning they still owe you the obligations outlined in their privacy clause. They cannot distribute your content without your permission but if you give them that permission – then they have to be able to serve the file.

Cannon
July 2, 2011

Well congratulations, you assholes. Thanks for trying to steal my artwork with your bullshit 'we can use your files for anything we want, whenever we want, if we loosely claim that it helps with the service' clause. I'm done if that doesn't change in less than a day. And if I find that you DO use my art for ANYTHING, since I was a paid user long before you decided to add this atrocity to your TOS, I will sue your ass into the ground. You provide a syncing and backup service. You do not own my files, and you do not get to do jack shit with them unless I tell you explicitly in writing that you can.

SmartGuy
July 2, 2011

What the crap is this … seeya later D box

Info
July 2, 2011

well, the people 'far up themselves' are most likely paying users like me making your free account possible. I don't pay for Facebook or Gmail, so I expect a lack of privacy.

Jason A. Quest
July 2, 2011

It doesn't have to be that simplistic.  Dropbox *could* offer a service that provides the level of privacy assurance that most people are asking for.  But they've added worthless boilerplate to their TOS which undercuts those assurances.  People shouldn't have to choose between your “don't put it on the Internet” option and “worldwide … sublicenseable rights to … publicly display that stuff”.

Marty Marks
July 2, 2011

The only change I really have an issue with is the new part that lets you use our “stuff” as you  ”and those [you] work with to provide the Services” see fit.  Now, if this applies only to files in my Public folder, I'm fine with that.  But as for files outside that folder, I think that's going a little too far.

Aaaa
July 2, 2011

Many mention they're going to Spideroak; I chose Sugarsync. Goodbye, won't be missing you.

NotStupud
July 2, 2011

You are great, but don't tell ppl to limit their expectations on service requirements. Business needs to meet customers needs not the othee eay around and your comment does a disservice to us all.

Jason A. Quest
July 2, 2011

IP addresses change far too much to be of any use for this purpose.  My laptop sometimes has 5-10 different IP addresses over the course of a day.

Lana Sue Miller
July 2, 2011

I will be leaving dropbox. Lana_sue @SBCGLOBAL,NET

James
July 2, 2011

Really? I mean… Really? Who thought this was a good idea?

Anyway, thanks but no. I'll keep my files and my $200 a year. 

1 less paying customer.

Jonathan
July 2, 2011

In addition to my comment abovev, I'd just like to point out that this provision has always been in dropbox's T&C.  Nothing new.

Jonathan
July 2, 2011

As someone else has pointed out, SugarSync's terms and conditions have the same provisions.

Lana Sue Miller
July 2, 2011

I will be leaving dropbox.

Jason A. Quest
July 2, 2011

“Make sure you give people the time to copy their files before you stop your service”

There are *always* copies of your files on your system.  It's how Dropbox works.

Jason A. Quest
July 2, 2011

I don't believe they intend to, but legally: yes, it does.

steven2358
July 2, 2011

Grant you the complete rights of every file I submit to Dropbox? Facebook tried this once, and they had to change it because of user backlash. I hope you revise this absurd clause.

Jason A. Quest
July 2, 2011

Not 13-year-olds.  At at that age, you're “13 and a month” or  “13 and a half” or “almost 14″. :)

Stryken
July 2, 2011

Well, I'll be encrypting everything before I upload it now. Thanks, guys.

what
July 2, 2011

People need to learn to read the terms themselves.

“By using our Services you may give us access to your information, files, and folders (together, “your stuff”). You retain ownership to your stuff. You are also solely responsible for your conduct, the content of your files and folders, and your communications with others while using the Services.

We sometimes need your permission to do what you ask us to do with your stuff (for example, hosting, making public, or sharing your files). By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it necessary for the Service. You must ensure you have the rights you need to grant us that permission.”They need permission to copy and share your stuff. Otherwise it's like they're pirating anything you put in your public folder. That's all this means. You still have ownership, and copyright law still applies.

DropBox user
July 2, 2011

Google's Terms of Service section is very similar to DropBox's, particularly:11. Content license from you

11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in
Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services.
By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a
perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive
license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly
perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit,
post or display on or through, the Services. This license is for the
sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the
Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the
Additional Terms of those Services.===I believe the above is necessary for the service provider to be legally covered when they convert and transmit your files.

Jason Howell
July 2, 2011

zumodrive doesn't

Max Woolf
July 2, 2011

I guess you could say Dropbox…

*glasses pull*

is now dropping its customers.

Jason Howell
July 2, 2011

I want people to see my photos. I just don't want some bone-headed company saying that they can take my photos and do whatever the hell they want to with them.

Jamyn
July 2, 2011

Don't go all extreme, Mohawke, it adds nothing to the discussion.
The whole “If you're doing nothing wrong, then you shouldn't have a problem with <something here=”">” argument is incredibly stupid. It attempts to apply shame or guilt for no actual reason. If you don't like something, you should have the right to say so.

It is not unreasonable to expect storage providers to do their best to secure your files. It is not unreasonable to expect storage providers to follow security best-practices. Some people don't care about security at all. Some care, and know how to secure their own stuff. And some people care about security but don't know how to best secure their own files, so they rely on services like DropBox to provide as secure a service as possible.  If there wasn't a market for more secure service, SpiderOak wouldn't be in business. They're also far from perfect by the way, but instead of saying “security is hard”, they do what is reasonably possible to secure their service.Don't belittle people for having desires different from you. It's childish.</something>

Tiny Clanger
July 2, 2011

This rights clause really needs clearing up — there's no way I can continue to use a service that claims rights to publicly display my files (surely not a workaround for legal issues caused by the recent auth fail?)

As written, the terms allow Dropbox to grab any of my content if they say “we think this will be good for Dropbox” first. No way — you only get to do that if I've authorised it, and even then only to the extent that I have (putting something in the Public folder makes it accessible to anybody who knows — or guesses — the URL. It doesn't mean Dropbox can put my content in a book or whatever).

If Dropbox sticks with the terms as written, I'll have to close my account.

Info
July 2, 2011

if had read like Wuala's, it may have been better, the distinction is if/when you make your data PUBLIC. That makes sense

The user agrees, that by making data public, the user grants LaCie a free, worldwide, non-commerical right of use of such data as well as the right of commercial use for marketing purposes in connection with Wuala. [Without agreement to the contrary, a copyright notice is to be applied and the modification of data is prohibited.]

Jamyn
July 2, 2011

That's cute. It looks like comment system processes words wrapped in brackets as XML, and automatically closes them? I wrote “something here” above, in brackets, and what you see above was the result.
<something here=”">blah<something></something></something>

Gil
July 2, 2011

I´m leaving dropbox. 

trying
https://www.sugarsync.com

Dr

Guest01020340
July 2, 2011

Try google translate. Not perfect but will give you an idea.

Probeer google vertalen. Niet perfect, maar geeft je een idee.

puhsitch
July 2, 2011

They can't “steal” anything without your permission, so I think you can chill out.

Monkeyboy
July 2, 2011

Steal your artwork? Listen to yourself!! If your 'artwork' is any good, I expect it's  available in dozens of media and hundreds of sites all over the net. They are, are as you say, just a syncing and backup service. The have no interest in your poxy doodlings – most of which I bet you gladly upload to anywhere that'll display 'em. This just enables the free copying to and from their servers and helps them with issues surrounding the images when they are made public. Good riddance – more bandwidth for us rational users.

Bardolph
July 2, 2011

What's all the fuss about?

Paulo
July 2, 2011

“This
email is a confirmation that you've deleted your Dropbox account. Your
files are no longer on Dropbox, but we haven't removed them from your
computers.”

You still don't get it, do you?

Monkeyboy
July 2, 2011

Bye – more bandwidth for us…

Shawn McNaughton
July 2, 2011

“By using our Services you may give us access to your information, files, and folders (together, “your stuff”). You retain ownership to your stuff. You are also solely responsible for your conduct, the content of your files and folders, and your communications with others while using the Services.We sometimes need your permission to do what you ask us to do with your stuff (for example, hosting, making public, or sharing your files). By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it necessary for the Service. You must ensure you have the rights you need to grant us that permission.”Now, I'm no lawyer, but the salient points in my mind:(1) They aren't asserting ownership. (2) They are explaining that by submitting files to the service (for storage, etc.) you give them the right to follow your preferences and instructions – such as if you put a file in a public folder, you give them the right to make it accessible without your login at a public URL. While certainly it may be able to be worded more clearly, it is basically saying that you give them the right to do what they ask,(3) The 'we think it necessary for the service' is the most nebulous clause here. It would be far better if they would do a thorough internal review and enumerate the uses, for example:     a. Any file uploaded to the service must be available for reasonable use, such as run through deduplication software (to reduce our storage needs), mirroring to other Dropbox-operated servers (to improve speed and reliability), and automatic monitoring for copyright infringment or content that may be illegal (or would make us otherwise legally at fault by hosting it).    b. Any file placed in a public folder will be accessible via the web without your user credentials being required. You assert that you have the legal right to display the file (that you own or license the copyright, that the content is legal in any jurisdiction you access it from as well as the jurisdiction of our servers (click here for a list of server locations), etc.). We reserve the right to monitor content you make available publicly as we are potentially liable for this content.    c. Any content in a shared folder will be accessible to users specified on the access list of that shared folder.    d. Any file that you choose a function on, such as translate, edit or encrypt, will be run through code modules appropriate to that function. We will endeavor to store no data traceable to you and your content; however, we will store usage data (such as how often you use a function, how much CPU time it takes, etc.) to ensure that users don't overburden the service.   e. Any file placed on the service will be protected from unauthorized use to the best of our ability. We do not guarantee absolute security, and while we encrypt your content when possible there may unauthorized access. Third party tools to enhance security (such as TrueCrypt) and other measure, such as not uploading personally identifiable information (such as address, SSN, bank info, passwords, etc.) are advisable, and we cannot be held liable for breaches except in cases of extreme negligence and/or malice.Now, again, I'm sure they need to lawyer up, and I can't blame them. I can't say I'm happy with the terms as they stand. But, people below like Ned are correct – absolute security/privacy and the cloud are not really compatible. And the idea of them asserting a license for monetary gain? REALLY bad, and if they add language that prevents that, I'll stay a dropbox customer.

William Carleton
July 2, 2011

Agree. And further to that, why is it necessary for Dropbox to have a license to the distinct rights under copyright to “perform, or publicly display.” Is that to backstop or give Dropbox additional coverage in case there is a breach of security — to be able to say, heck, we're sorry, but you gave us a license to display your stuff anyway? It would seem that Dropbox would want to disclaim the right to perform or publicly display anything users post to Dropbox (that's a loaded term, isn't it; post implies publication!) but instead put the onus of that decision on Dropbox users.

Mark the Webalyst
July 2, 2011

Well, I love the ability to sync files where they are. Putting them all in some other structure is a pain. I have my desktops all sync'd on three machines, matching file trees etc. All that needs is a right click.

Mark

Geezer
July 2, 2011

Soooo… you're leaving because of privacy issues, but you post your email address. Dropbox will be glad to have a few less hysterical nutters on their books, I'd have though.

Mark the Webalyst
July 2, 2011

Its not necessary to store the machine ID to implement referrals so this is a spurious justification.

Mark

2toirreH
July 2, 2011

I don't see any errors in ttaM's spelling or grammar

Michael
July 2, 2011

I just removed all my files, know what else is funny, they say its our responsibility to protect our passwords in the TOS yet they are the ones that made it so a password wasn't required. Too many security lapses and a horrible tos.

Topsecretartist
July 2, 2011

It's not about that I wouldn't like to have people seeing every file (personal or not) that I've uploaded to my private personal folder (well.. yeah but that's not the main issue).
It's about I don't want to give Dropbox the rights to do whatever they want with my files! It's MY art, that I CREATED and storage it so I'll have access to it anywhere.I should have option to choose who I want to distribute it to.

Sandy
July 2, 2011

Als u kopieert de TOS naar Word 7, kunt u vertalen via WORD.

Jason Howell
July 2, 2011

Dropbox has decided that they can use your files in any manner you don't see/they see fit. 

Have a really cool sunset picture? They can modify it, and use it, for monetary gain.

Zate Berg
July 2, 2011

removing all my files and deleting my account.  You dont get free reign to use my information as you see fit.

Jim_Z
July 2, 2011

DropBox:

I have no problem with deduping, but is it right to do it tacitly? I may upload a file and then rename my old one, and I would hate to have that occur in medias res. How about a warning before this occurs.

Kajdun
July 2, 2011

“This email is a confirmation that you've deleted your Dropbox account. Yourfiles are no longer on Dropbox”

Patriot123
July 2, 2011

in before 404!

Morph
July 2, 2011

From SugarSync's T&C;
“ Accordingly, you hereby grant to SugarSync a license: (i) to use, copy, transmit, distribute, store and cache Files that you choose to sync and/or store; and (ii) to copy, transmit, publish, and distribute to others the Files as you designate, whether through the sharing or public linking features of the Service, in each case solely to provide the Service to you.”
:P

Duckonaroof
July 2, 2011

The clause is there, surely, to protect DropBox from any legally dodgy stuff you may place in your Public Folder. You must give DropBox permission to “use” it (i.e. display it) so that they can bounce any legal issues back to you. I would be amazed if DropBox inspects let alone harvests the contents of any Public Folders.

alex
July 2, 2011

shawn and ned, you might be right: stuff in the cloud can't be a 100% safe and secure. and it is even ok for me if they monitor files. but I am not willing to grant any rights to dropbox that allows them publish, sublicense or use my art, music, poems, dissertations, sex tapes or whatever..

I deleted everything. too bad…

Jason Howell
July 2, 2011

Honestly, I've found Zumodrive handier than Dropbox. The DB client on LinuxMint would never work for me.

Jason Howell
July 2, 2011

+1

Tamtambird
July 2, 2011

well said Shawn, too much paranoia around these issues generally.. but the last bit is one to watch… where does it say they are going to assert a license for monetary gain?

Paulo
July 2, 2011

“Absolute security/privacy and the cloud and the cloud are not really compatible.”

That's right, but some of Dropbox competitors (Wuala and Spideroak, for example, which encrypt data BEFORE uploading) do a much better job trying to keep your data secure and private. That's how I'll be doing my backups to 'the cloud' from now on.

Rob Smith
July 2, 2011

The wrong part is that you believe Dropbox is like Youtube, and the problem is with you “bening not comfortable”… No, the problem is you are NOT ALLOWED TO STORE MOST OF YOUR FILES. Because, unlike on Youtube, you didn't create them and thus don't have the right to grant any license to them to Dropbox. So you violate the TOS by uploading files to which you cannot grant license to Dropbox.

Think of this that way: Sites like Youtube or Deviantart are like art galleries. You painted a picture, place it in gallery and the gallery requests the right to include it in their catalogue, showcase in a TV programme and so on. You retain rights to your picture and they advertise themselves – and the picture. All is fine and dandy. Now comes Dropbox, which is a bank with deposit boxes. And they request exactly the same right for content of your deposit box. They want to display it to the public, showcase it on TV and release in a catalogue. And your deposit box contains a confidential draft of a deal with some company, and documents they gave you under NDA. And you are not allowed to show them to anyone. But… but the art galleries already use this business technique, why can't a bank do it?

Robert H
July 2, 2011

The TOS are somewhat more legible now and I admire their attempt to at that. From the comments below it looks like they still need to clear up some of the details about  publicly display my stuff but I'm staying. Drop box works great between multiple macs and if I want to keep stuff private I keep it on a post it note on my desk.

Ceezee99
July 2, 2011

Thanks for taking the time

Adam Chaney
July 2, 2011

I just deleted my account. Your new TOS is unacceptable. Apple tried this. Did not work. You can't have my stuff.

“This email is a confirmation that you've deleted your Dropbox account. Yourfiles are no longer on Dropbox”

This should be the fail blog item of the day.

Fred Bailey
July 2, 2011

Well, that was a blast from the past.  I got dropbox because someone wanted to share a large file with me through the use of it, and I have never given it a moment's thought all these years.  Now comes an e-mail about the changes referred to in this post.

Look, is there some way you could stretch the 'privacy policy' a little and just forget I exist?  I promise to reciprocate in kind.

Valouvir
July 2, 2011

on pourrait avoir ce texte en français ?

The Watcher
July 2, 2011

Keep talking. You make yourself sound more and more like a dumb ass with each breath ..

The Watcher
July 2, 2011

Yay – another email to spam!! And you're worried about someone stealing your files? Pfft. Now anyone here can sell your email for MUCH more! Beers for everyone!!

Dafridafrancina
July 2, 2011

“By submitting your stuff to the [Dropbox] Services, you grant us (…)
worldwide (…) rights to use (…) or publicly display that stuff”

B6513932
July 2, 2011

Find any time that they have “stolen” someone's file(s) in the past and post it here as an example. I'll be waiting. Until then, everyone chill out.

Noam
July 2, 2011

I love D-box but I'm still waiting for a 'permission's option wich would allow – or not allow others sharing a folder to remove items – or better yet – an option to let them take an automated duplicate to a seprate folder on thier computers – leaving the original in place.   Dissapearing files are the biggest hassel with group shared folders.

Anonymous
July 2, 2011

Maybe Dropbox would help users if they make an F.A.Q. for the T.O.S, Privacy and Security Policies documents and them Answer the Questions. Such documents may lead to subjective and ambiguous interpretations.

Cwoodward
July 2, 2011

Hmmm… I  never save anything with personal information (or information about my students) in my dropbox.  This is the basic security that I teach my students.  If you are concerned about something, don't post it on the web.  Once it's in the clouds, it can be accessed by any half-brained hacker anyway.  And do you really believe that your work is so valuable that someone is going to make a fortune on it?  Let's get real!  I save blank forms, sample lesson plans, and generic information that I want to keep track of.  Anything of a private nature or possible resale value is saved on separate media.  thanks, love dropbox for what it does!

Tony Hitchings
July 2, 2011

Thank you T Hitchings

Gumbo Limbo
July 2, 2011

And we all now just how much Dropbox wants to display your stuff.  Oh, man, they just can't WAIT to put it on YouTube & have others ridicule it.

Nothing I put in Dropbox is that freakin' sensitive or valuable.  They can have Johnny Depp read it out loud if they'd like; that's the only way anybody would have the slightest interest in it.  I'm betting MOST of the stuff in Dropbox is of the same ilk.

Dick
July 2, 2011

Presumably Dropbox wants to protect itself from unnecessary liability.  Customers don't want to give greater rights in their data than necessary to enable Dropbox to carry out the functions desired by the customers.  These goals are not mutually exclusive.  If Dropbox's present attorney can't draft a document that does both, then Dropbox needs a new attorney.

This does not mean that Dropbox can or should contractually protect itself from all liability.  Some liability is inherent in being in business and is part of why successful businesses make profits.  Some liability is best covered by insurance.  A proper balance can allow a business to operate without making its dealings with its customers so onerous that it ends up with an inadequate customer base to survive.

There is also the matter of timing.  Given the recent major security gaff, perhaps this wasn't the ideal time to do anything to rock the boat with customers.

In any event, it's now time to go back and redraft the documents with the assumption that they will be read by customers who will make decisions about their future relationship with Dropbox based in part on those documents.  And quickly isn't fast enough.

Sergio Azevedo Pereira
July 2, 2011

Well, well, How nice you guys! You finally unerstood!
Now a great question how could I get started and really use these marvelous tool? That would save mew a lot of time patience and money like wise.
All the best and inform me how could i efectivelly use dropox every to store, save and send data evergy day

dknoodle
July 2, 2011

Because if you are dim witted enough to put your files in the Public directory on your dropbox account, they need this right to do so. Look at CONTEXT, they are simply stating what they need from time to time to follow through with what YOU have requested they do with YOUR files. It has nothing to do with them taking your files and making them public on their own, or using those files for anything to their benefit except to provide YOU with their service.

Don
July 2, 2011

Oh, come on, Luke, tell us what how you really feel.

Sergio Azevedo
July 2, 2011

Congrats! you guys! you finally got the users`point!
Now how could i start using this wonderful tool to store, save and send data?
I believe you undestood security is important but it shouldn`t be an impossible task!
Please just inform on how could I become an effective user of dropox as soon as possible.
Great times, best still to come, and good luck to us
Sérgio

Darren
July 2, 2011

Drew/Arash:

Do you, in your wildest dreams, believe this new TOS is going to *help* Dropbox's reputation given the events of the past few months? This reminds me of the story of the band on the “Titanic” playing “Nearer My God to Thee” to keep the passengers calm.

I've loved Dropbox from the first day I ever used it. I have waited, patiently, since this Spring's earlier security fiasco for you to implement a client-side encryption system a la SpyderOak or Wuala. Instead of engaging in the actual labor necessary to alleviate many customers' security concerns, you “lawyer up” and choose to smack down your users with a “trust us we know what's good for you” TOS revision. (Full disclosure: I am a lawyer and the new TOS has the fingerprints of nervous legal counsel all over it.)

I am fully aware I'm only one (paying) customer and my business won't make or break Dropbox, but I'll be gone by July 15.

You dropped the ball on this one, gentlemen.

Luke
July 2, 2011

“You retain ownership to your stuff (…) We sometimes need your permission to do what you ask us to do with your stuff (for example, hosting, making public, or sharing your files)”

DerekCurrie
July 2, 2011

Encryption belongs on the USER'S end. On my Macs I use an encrypted .sparseimage file. It resides in my DropBox folder. I added it to my Login Items. It mounts as a unique volume every time I log into my user account. I can put anything in there. It expands to fit what's in it. Anyone with Mac OS X can make one using Apple's included Disk Utility application. No one can ever get into it but me, not even our constitution ignoring US federal government. It's that secure. The next time DropBox leaves all its accounts wide open, if someone steals it from my account, I don't care. They can't ever open it. It's the ideal solution.

Yves Sandfort
July 2, 2011

Sorry this is going to far… Not only asking for the right to make everything public, lucky me, long weekend, so switching all employee accounts to the competition…

Sorry, was a long good time, but as a commercial user I can't accept this far going rights…

Marco Adami
July 2, 2011

What if you decide to share your folder with someone but you didn't agree to the TOS (in that specific part)? Dropbox couldn't let you share that folder. The public is just the friend you want to share that folder with, if you don't agree, they cannot allow you to do it.

My two cents

Laura Anne
July 2, 2011

“By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we
work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive,
royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare
derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of,
perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it
necessary for the Service.”

Congratulations.  You've just made Dropbox legally unusable for writers, artists, photographers, and anyone else who creates content for sale or license.  Bye.

Marco Adami
July 2, 2011

The Privacy policy is incorporated within the Terms agreement – thereby
inferring they cannot “distribute your content without your consent”. They must have the right to display your files, otherwise you couldn't share a folder (for example).

Marco Adami
July 2, 2011

As other people said: The Privacy policy is incorporated within the Terms agreement – thereby
inferring they cannot “distribute your content without your consent”. They must have the right to display your files, otherwise you couldn't share a folder (for example).

Jeremy Stretch
July 2, 2011

“By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we
work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive,
royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare
derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of,
perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it
necessary for the Service.”

This needs to be amended in several ways to be acceptable:

1. There is no reason for these rights to be sublicenseable. This bit alone negates the assertion that customers retain ownership of their data.

2. Dropbox does not need the right to create derivative works of user data. (Data compression is not considered in 17 U.S.C. § 101 as a derivative work.)

3. The right to publicly display user data must be qualified by the condition that the user has provided express permission for Dropbox to do so. As it stands, this assertion relieves Dropbox of any and all responsibility for keeping user data confidential.

Fix these points, and maybe I'll be back. That's assuming you don't decide passwords should be optional again.

Jeff Casimir
July 2, 2011

Just to add to the pile…

I've been a Dropbox user from the early versions when I kept checking back, hoping that you'd start taking money for more space. I've been a loyal paying customer and evangelist since. I even rocked on your Rockband while hanging out at the office.

Given the SUPER-MEGA-FUCKUP with security last week, we should have all been refunded big chunks of our subscription, had our disk space doubled, or something. 

Instead, we get this bullshit TOS.

That's enough. I'm trying SpiderOak and deleting my Dropbox as soon as the new sync is done.

The Public
July 2, 2011

Even with the update to your TOS, its still unacceptable. People there is SpideOak and Ubuntu One. Rather gonna pay them than continue with this!

/K

Kathy E Gill
July 2, 2011

I have to join the chorus about the licensing arrangement.  
Your 7-2 update/clarification is insufficient — SUB-LICENSABLE? DERIVATIVE WORKS? PUBLICLY DISPLAY?Did you really talk to an IP lawyer? Go look at Flickr. Go look at Google, for crissakes. If you truly want people to share WORK on dropbox, you have to change the license. There is no way that I can share student work, feedback and so forth on Dropbox with this licensing arrangement.

Lanea Miller
July 2, 2011

THANK YOU Jonathan.  I was reading everyone's responses, hoping someone brought this up so I wouldn't have to at the end.  People are freaking out for no reason.  But, as some others have said, more bandwidth for those of us who understand and read the whole sentence of what was written.

Bob Vaez
July 2, 2011

What is WRONG with DrobBox legal/management team!

I am a paying user but will ask for refund to cancel my account as I can not explain this TOS to my clients! We share files between my company and our partners “legal docs, sales information, copyright material, etc” I can not use a service that is going to claim ownership over our material merely for the the fact that I use your service as a private cloud service!If this is not the meaning of this clause in your TOS you better clarify or I'm gone by Tuesday and will ask our lawyer to request proof our material has been permanently removed from your servers! 

This has got to be a joke, the worst TOS of any cloud services I have used! Good thing I didn't move my entire company to DropBox yet!

Amit Bhatia
July 2, 2011

If I have to grant you permission to use my documents, then I better shift to some other service. Your terms of use… to license you the right to use my documents is very confusing. A clarification would help.

Bob Vaez
July 2, 2011

exactly, what are these guys thinking. I have my entire company's documents shared here! I am paying so they host my files not to duplicate and claim ownership! They have to find a better lawyer and writer to do this TOS…

Acrosoftcenter
July 2, 2011

Thanks for securety and encryption. You helped alot

Gigi
July 2, 2011

“By using our Services you may give us access to your information,
files, and folders (together, “your stuff”). You retain ownership to
your stuff. You are also solely responsible for your conduct, the
content of your files and folders, and your communications with others
while using the Services.

We sometimes need your permission to do
what you ask us to do with your stuff (for example, hosting, making
public, or sharing your files). By submitting your stuff to the
Services, you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services)
worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use,
copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or
format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the
extent we think it necessary for the Service. You must ensure you have
the rights you need to grant us that permission.”

They
need permission to copy and share your stuff. Otherwise it's like
they're pirating anything you put in your public folder. That's all this
means. You still have ownership, and copyright law still applies.

John
July 2, 2011

You don't get it, do you?

“By using our Services you may give us access to your information,
files, and folders (together, “your stuff”). You retain ownership to
your stuff. You are also solely responsible for your conduct, the
content of your files and folders, and your communications with others
while using the Services.”

They
need permission to copy and share your stuff. Otherwise it's like
they're pirating anything you put in your public folder. That's all this
means. You still have ownership, and copyright law still applies.

Masa
July 2, 2011

Regarding the paragraph on licensing. It should be clearly specified what is meant by “reasonably necessary for the service”. Also, I understand why the right to copy and distribute if it is within the limits of the company's servers to provide good service but not to give away freely. I also don't understand why DropBox wants to have the right to “use' and to “prepare derivative works”. I don't see why this is important to their business and it seems more like a violation o intellectual property.

For example, if I am negotiating a contract with a potential customer and we exchange the contract document through DropBox, I understand that the document may be copied to another server but I don't see why DropBox should use my document or prepare derivative works from it. What purpose would that serve? Same with any other kind of content users put on their dropboxes.

This licensing goes way too far and DropBox should seriously reconsider what they are asking users to give up or they'll lose lots of business.

Matt Rajotte
July 2, 2011

Want to add a clause that states encryption keys will not be used to decrypt your data unless authorized by you the user or legal authorities….

Louise
July 2, 2011

Dropbox really needs to clarify this.  As written, it sounds like you are going to have the right to unilaterally use your customers' content.  I am sure you don't want that misinterpretation to be propagated.

M. Tim Jones
July 2, 2011

Deduping has nothing to do with file names but instead file contents.  It's a huge win for the provider, because they use less storage that way.  But there are dangers if the primary copy is lost (lots of people lose data, not just one).

Masa
July 2, 2011

Nice solution but… how many people out there have the know-how or the time to do this? 
What DopBox proposes is still out of line.

C.D. Reimer
July 2, 2011

WTF! Dropbox new TOS claims ownership to my data. Uh, no. My business plan, ebooks and WIPs are MINE! Dropbox folder now empty. I'll wait a while to see if this situation changes. If not, adios DropBox!

John
July 2, 2011

Google?

Google's Terms of Service section is very similar to DropBox's, particularly:11. Content license from you

11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in
Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services.
By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a
perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive
license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly
perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you submit,
post or display on or through, the Services. This license is for the
sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and promote the
Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined in the
Additional
Terms of those Services.

Mike Otgaar
July 2, 2011

I don't know what all the fuss is about… Users still have control
over what is made public. Perhaps the wording of the terms and privacy
policy has been over simplified. Personally I found the old legal
terminology easier to understand.
Of course the golden rule is: Do not make any documents or other information that is valuable, private, sensitive or that you don't want made public on the internet – anywhere.
I'm keeping my Dropbox Account

Guest
July 2, 2011

Yeaaaaaaah

MAJ
July 2, 2011

This is better, but you really need to explicitly define the circumstances under which you would do that. People can reasonably interpret the new language to mean “we don't intend to  do anything evil, but there's nothing to stop us changing our minds later.”

Mike Otgaar
July 2, 2011

So simple… Well said!

Luke
July 2, 2011

You copied me :(

Sharonlee
July 2, 2011

Well…I just cleaned out my Dropbox — even the amended statement is 'way too risky to chance.  You don't need a sublicense to do what I tell you to do with my material.  As long as I've asserted to you that the material, that's all you need, legally.

Matt Rajotte
July 2, 2011

The terminology needs further defining. Until then, I've permanently deleted my files, however, not given up hope you will listen to your customers. Derivative works? So a dropbox employee can decrypt my files, use my 3D models to start their own project? Still not acceptable. And “reasonably necessary” needs to be defined more specifically.

So if Dropbox as a company was failing one would argue that selling my files to someone else would be reasonably necessary to keep providing the service….. still unacceptable… keep working with your lawyers to make this work for people.

paolo amicucci
July 2, 2011

I agree with your change, but I ask if you decide to do dropbox also in Italian language

Zate Berg
July 2, 2011

that sounds a bit better.

Cerno Opus
July 2, 2011

So is your company data on their server or not?  The previous post to this one indicated it wasn't.  But to my concern about cloud services is this, why would you want to trust someone you don't know to store your data on a server managed by someone you don't know in a place you don't know but is probably outside the united States of America so it's governed by what laws?  Just curious.

Barry
July 2, 2011

as was posted on the forum thread about the TOS, I think it would be far better to make the limitations on Dropbox's permitted use of the content we upload more explicit, as Google has

“”Your Intellectual Property Rights. Google does not claim any ownership in any of the content, including any text, data, information, images, photographs, music, sound, video, or other material, that you upload, transmit or store in your Gmail account. We will not use any of your content for any purpose except to provide you with the Service.”

Don
July 2, 2011

From reading the first few pages of comments here, it seems that most of those who are complaining are concerned about what they understand to be DropBox's assertion that they reserve the right to use subscribers' data for their own commercial purposes. I don't read the new TOS that way. It seems to me that they are covering their collective ass in case some legal issue is brought against them for simply conducting the necessities of managing your data. If you really believe that they might try to profit by stealing your proprietary data, why in the world would you submit your data to be stored on someone else's server, where you have limited control?

There is an inherent risk of interception and misappropriation every time you send data over the Internet in the first place, and certainly with any “cloud” storage technology.  If you don't fully understand that, you shouldn't be using the Internet at all. You can substantially reduce the risk by using strong encryption, which is what you should do if your data is valuable or confidential.

It seems to me that DropBox has been pretty open and pro-active on this TOS revision and I don't have any problems with it. But I'm not storing highly sensitive or proprietary data on it. If I had such data, I would be unlikely to utilize a public “cloud” storage service for storing it. No doubt there are some operations that could benefit from the universal access and sharing features, but whose data is proprietary and valuable, and for them it may not be the right solution.

ByeByeDropbox
July 2, 2011

My company has been a long time user and have referred many companies to dropbox. We hold multiple accounts and we've used dropbox to store and fileshare between our multiple offices our proprietary materials as wells as our Fortune 100 client materials. If any of that got out it would kill their business, ours along with and DROPBOX along with since these companies would not screw around and there would be immediate legal action. I'm immediately canceling all my accounts and moving our files into FTP server. 

I understand the Intent of the TOS but as it is worded it is not acceptable legalese. You need to amend it right away or remove it and come back with better wording.

Durathor
July 2, 2011

I don't think that would be judged 'reasonably necessary' in a court.  Reasonable isn't a term to specifically define, it is judged by the courts.

Gracema1961
July 2, 2011

i agree the new strategy. Grace Ma

purengom
July 2, 2011

I've read full TOS and Privacy Policies, and Its my conclusion its rather stick to continue using it. (By currently) There statements match what they served to me, there is coherence between statements and behaviors so I don't find reasons to distrust. 

For example, I upload my file to dropbox and some day It turns out to be going public via “Get shareable link” option in context menu in any folder to unique db.tt shortened URL for file or just dragging to public folder to get a file share link. if you have ever tried those procedure to share the document file such as PDFs or Office documents, you may see preview which powered by Scribd API. and I'm live in Seoul, South Korea, and In my recent case, a recipient lives in Tokyo. they(which sits is SF, Los Angeles) needs to get consent to transmit(or conveniently 'copy' in their terms), and license(giving permission behalf of you to Scribd) 'prepare derivative works(generated preview)' then 'perform' and 'publicly display'(a window, which shows an owner, embed preview window and download button) since the link I was given 'unique' but its 'opened' which means displayed because everyone who know the address could access the documents, so it has gone public. and I think this is 'extent' of they 'think it necessary to service' and I agreed. Okay. Go ahead.  Some guys points YouTube's TOS and it resembles it, yes thats what exactly for this reason. Some points that both are a different kind of services, you now saw 'real people' who use both service alike. 'upload share file publicly' and they transcode to gave preview before click download. How about to know not all people simply put the files secrecy and that's all or share between dropbox users(you know I can't ask everyone join dropbox to pass single file to somebody or hosting flyer over web to mass public). Before close an account(of course that's completely up to you), cool your head, don't rationalize entire service by your usage. Someone worries about their data being stoled but without if those descriptions doesn't exists, you know, actually they really infringed my copyrights without my consents at the time I make a link. So they ask I hold 'have the rights' I 'need to grant' them 'that permission'  for such things(transmit, reproduce, license…). I don't think that is problematic clause. They've consistently told they need to empower portion of service simply hold encryption keys individually make feasible(see just up there), and I don't know some other guys thinking, I'm really enjoy those feature. Of course, since I've tried several other competitive services, and I don't know how much they embrace security itself, but in aspects of overall convenience dropbox is simply outstanding. I don't think that I've ever compromised, except for those infamous 'four hours', and after face those 'clarified' TOS, I'll stand by with Dropbox. Actually I have confused with furious feedback, not TOS itself. Following those events about privacy and security breach issues, they need to clarify there documents for easy to read format, even for non-naitive English speaker, which is very welcomed(of course liability part is traditionally, little difficult to comprehend, but the rests are much 'softened'). But, since my case prove it they need some 're-clarification' or gave a FAQs, because many people disagreed, They need to pour water to chill down the customer, and their anxiety too.

Mike Otgaar
July 2, 2011

Don, your comment goes right to the point. This comment should be a 'sticky' post so it stays right at the top of the list for everyone to read.

Max Nevermind
July 2, 2011

ОК!

Durathor
July 2, 2011

I think any similar service will need the same terms in order to manage your data and to display it to you without being in breach of your copyright by displaying your data back to you.  Which is what this is aimed at.

Laura Anne
July 2, 2011

The problem for some of us is that we MUST reserve those rights, as we sell what we create (and store on Dropbox).  The TOS as it's worded, even with the amendment, puts us in a potential legal tangle and makes the service more potential headache than it's worth.

Laura Anne
July 2, 2011

No, YOU don't get it – I sell/license rights to my work.  If someone has already claimed those rights, then those rights aren't available to sell (or are worth less as a secondary market).

It's about legal contracts, not what they may/may not do.

Armando A.
July 2, 2011

hell , im confused now , is it worth or not to store my files ??

nucoca
July 2, 2011

I'm canceling my account.

Joann Ross
July 2, 2011

Wow. We have 4 macs in the house and I had no idea I could do this.  One problem with macs is that they're so easy and problem-free,  I've pretty much forgotten all the tech stuff I had to know how to do with my old PCs.  Thanks.

Emanuele Quintarelli
July 2, 2011

Very poor terms of service, unacceptable behavior and silly update to the post.

I've just cancelled all of my “stuff” and I'm sharing this TOS with thousands of my contacts on any social network I'm using.

Be sure, users will be migrating all their “stuff” in the blink of an eye if the TOS remains as it is now.

Emanuele Quintarelli
July 2, 2011

Their TOS as stated now is simply too broad and on the safe side for Dropbox.
 
What you state are just your assumptions of what Dropbox could be doing. I want to see it explicitly written in the TOS or I'll simply terminate my account.

asavar
July 2, 2011

^^^^^^^^^^

ебаные параноики

/////////

Mark Earnest
July 2, 2011

It would be helpful if they spelled out that this only applies to data the user willing chooses to share rather than keep private. As it stands now Dropbox is claiming these rights on all data on their service. Unnecessary, Google doesn't do this, Spideroak does not do this, several other do not. Dropbox does not have to either so either they need more competent lawyers to draw this up or need to stop pretending they have no choice.

Pissed off ex customer
July 2, 2011

Totally egregious. A company this blatantly overstepping the rights of individuals deserves to fail.

Derek
July 2, 2011

Isn't that what the “non-exclusive” part is for?

Matthew Dt
July 2, 2011

Here I am – reasonably technical, but not a lawyer. I suspect you are the same, except much more technical than I am. 

 But I believe that you and I are, initially at least, on the same side.  It's only when lawyers become involved it all gets confused.So here it is: when your new TOS say that I grant you (and your associates) the right to  ”use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display” my stuff – what does that actually mean? I just don't believe that you meant to say that you can show my files to the world, but to a non-lawyer, that's exactly what it says. Please elucidate – and change the words to stop us all panicking.

Posey 
July 2, 2011

I would rather pay a monthly bill than agree to this. I'm canceling now, which is a real shame because this was a genius set up.

Mattrajotte
July 2, 2011

I would rather have the entire thing written clearly then get to the point of a court determining what is reasonable.

chris conder
July 2, 2011

I see, so its the stuff we ask you to make public that you make public, and the rest stays private? right?

Buzbuzbuz
July 2, 2011

Hm, how TOS sounded before? Because I don't remember.
But I've learned about copyrights and stuff, and well…they can be confusing, but I think many of people panic without a reason.

“We sometimes need your permission to do what you ask us to do with your
stuff (for example, hosting, making public, or sharing your files). By
submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work
with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free,
sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works
(such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly
display that stuff to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.
This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display,
and operate the Services. You must ensure you have the rights you need
to grant us that permission.”

To me it's just sounds like they need your permission, so Dropbox can be used in a way it is designed to. That means with uploading file, you also agree that file can be stored on their serwers. Yup, copyrights sometimes require such dummy things like that…

Ah, i see purengom did better explanation, and explained other parts of the tos…anyway, you don't need to be afraid- it doesn't mean that DB will take your photo out of public folder and make a banner of it! It is totally not like that.

But you admins better say that yourself, in non-official language, so people won't be so afraid :)

Jason Howell
July 2, 2011

they need to simplify their simplified terms.

pretend i'm 4. now elaborate on them

Emanuele Quintarelli
July 2, 2011

Matthew,
you are spot on but I think Dropbox is already seeing lots of clients leaving. How to kill an amazing idea and service in a few minutes. 

Dropbox, you should seriously listen and learn!

Guest
July 2, 2011

Herpderpderp

Whinewhinewhine.

If you don't like it, leave. You won't be missed.

  Softrans
July 2, 2011

I believe that after reading this in detail, there is nothing much to say: http://computer-forensics.sans… .
Maybe users should do some research at Google under +dropbox +forensics .

LaurentB
July 2, 2011

Trust is gone !
Good job; you just killed your amazing tool. There is no forgiveness and no turning back. The only idea that you can have a peak at our files is ugly.

Joe
July 2, 2011

I can't believe how utterly paranoid and outright idiotic you people are. Copyright law supersedes anything said in this TOS and your work is not at risk. This is standard CYA legalize to avoid lawsuits for providing their service.

Get over it.

Joe
July 2, 2011

Legalese, that is. Damn apple.

Jpcypress
July 2, 2011

How did I become involved with “dropbox”??? Please advise!! jpcypress@gmail.com

Mattrajotte1
July 2, 2011

Yeah were all paranoid because companies like this can use this legal crap to steal out work. Can you afford to take on Dropbox in court? I can't. So if my rights aren't clearly defined, I can't afford to risk IP theft.

OliverS
July 2, 2011

All good things come to an end. It was great while it lasted. Unless you fire your lawyers and hire a law firm that is more client oriented and you completely re-word it, there is just no way to keep using this service!

BoarGules
July 2, 2011

There are a lot of complaints here, and they all seem to be saying “I don't understand this, and that is your fault.” Yes, despite DropBox's best efforts, it's heavy going. Don't blame DropBox for that, blame the byzantine US legal system that requires them (sometimes) to recite precise rigmaroles to avoid getting sued, just like magic spells in Harry Potter that don't work if you mispronounce a syllable.

How many of you complaining here read the original version before getting your space in the first place? I bet that (just like I did) you just clicked through, yeah, yeah, next, accept. Now that you are being actually asked to read the stuff you agreed to, you discover it's going to take you an afternoon just to read it all. You don't like that, of course. Who would? But it's mostly only rewording or commonsense extension of what you agreed to in the first place.

If you're that sensitive about a company in the cloud looking after your files then maybe the internet is not for you.

Get real, guys.

alberi2
July 2, 2011

действительно

Don
July 2, 2011

Fine, that's what I said, there are some operations for which it makes no sense to use a “cloud” storage service to store sensitive or valuable data in this manner. That's not a reason to criticize the supplier who is clear about the terms of service, in my opinion.  Do your homework and find a more appropriate solution.

Aa
July 2, 2011

НУ мало ли кто что хранит в дропбоксе ;)

Trefoil
July 2, 2011

Who the hell are you to tell us who the 'internet' is for?. Maybe the 'internet' is not to be managed by people like you!

Get lost, man.

Zaag
July 2, 2011

According to this terms, if you need more funds to keep (technically ) operating the services, this could also be a reason to use all rights you mentioned.

purengom
July 2, 2011

Agreed. It may broad, I said “they need some 're-clarification'” if they have 'good faith'. 

I also have stated what dropbox has doing and I just said “I would rather to continue using it” and the termination is “of course that's completely up to you”.   

I just want giving an idea. and I decided stay. and you seem you aren't. Well, maybe you may think I'm too naive, on the contrary I would say its very pessimistic dropbox which have truthfully served file for years eventually sell their users files, when it happen and turn out to leaked, they will publicly crash-and-burn, you see a glimpse of detail what would if 'really' happened, people are quitting as river flows. I would also note that their fully re-written ESL grade TOS is stupidly undercover their intention to everybody beforehand aloud(Did I told actually I'm ESL speaker? If I'm understood, I would say it's clearly its an easily written legal document). They even encouraged to read whole legal which most people doesn't care in the other websites via sending email which direct links to this blog post. How stupid it is? they've coffin nail themselves by choose to making and publicize easy-read TOS instead revising conventional one to be their 'deadly plot' revealed in just couple of hours.    

Ambiguity, it makes they could be criticized, bad name again, what a pity!, however I guess it could corrected since it's isn't substantial problem. Well, you might think this is also assumption, agreed. but I said I don't have reason to distrust, so why I don't have reason to have a belief of their 'good faith'? 
Anyway, Mr Quintarelli, and all other decide should be yours. If your feel satisfied with your decision to cancel it, it's good to know you're happy as I am.

Huw Jones18
July 2, 2011

These TOCs etc are a lot simpler and more straigtforward then those of Google or my bank or heating oil supplier. (I wonder how many people read them?) However, there does seem to be a difference between the general terms, as expressed in the e-mail, and the detail. Most of the detail is reasonable in the context of the e-mail. Perhaps what Dropbox should do is include the general iintroduction from the e-mail as the first paragraph of the TOC etc. This would make a big difference to user confidence, and provide a legal protection for all reasonable use by users.
I would not want to use Dropbox if other customers started messing with  the security, or if Dropbox could not change the format of files I wanted to send to foreign friends. If they could not make my data available to people that I asked them to make files available to, there would not be much point in using Dropbox at all. Dropbox must be allowed to do these things if the system is to work at all.
It seems that those customers who are threatening to leave have been guilty of assuming that files on the internet are secure. In fact they are like Radio or mobile phone messages, and open to all who have the equipment to pick up the digital signals and the skills to decode them. Very sensitive information should not be sent in this way at all. Surely credit card fraud and I/D theft should have taught them as much. Dropbox's TOC etc are simply explaining how their system works, showing where things can go wrong,  and telling us what protection they need.

OliverS
July 2, 2011

Like re-selling the data? Or show them in Google and Google pays Dropbox a fee? Like selling stock images?

Don
July 2, 2011

You must be a very important person to have thousands of social network contacts, and they will all do whatever you tell them to. I am impressed.

OliverS
July 2, 2011

This is way beyond what the US legal system requires them. The way it's written, it's completely pro company and anti-client.

OliverS
July 2, 2011

Fully agree with the genius set-up. And I'm already paying for multiple paid accounts. Still, the same terms and conditions apply to paid accounts. No difference.

Don
July 2, 2011

How do you figure that explaining their terms of service in plain language is “overstepping the rights of individuals”?? If you don't accept the TOS, all you have to do is close your account. Perhaps you didn't read the TOS when you signed up?? How is that their fault??

OliverS
July 2, 2011

Couldn't agree more, needs to be explicitly written in the TOS what they can do and no assumptions should be taken.

TheDude212
July 2, 2011

Almost all of these negative comments seem like some evil smear campaign from a rival cloud storage company. It's really weird.

If you've got top secret government documents that reveal the truth about Area 51 and the Kennedy assassination here's a tip: don't distribute them over the internet using the internet.

Otherwise, I seriously doubt dropbox wants to see naked pictures of your grandma or read your crappy emo poetry.

Don
July 2, 2011

The responsibilities and relationships between people on the Internet is very complex.  I agree with you, BoarGules, the TOS of every Internet and software product or service has to be clear and comprehensive or somebody is likely to be on shaky legal grounds.  Those of us who are not lawyers have trouble understanding such complex agreements, but that's inevitable, to avoid expensive lawsuits later.

I commend DropBox for at least trying to simplify their TOS and for notifying all account owners.  Anyone who can't accept the terms can easily terminate their account.  That's about as fair as you are going to find anywhere.

Mike Bing
July 2, 2011

All things considered a good service at a fair price just got better. Everything else is just nitpicking. Excellent job Dropbox team!

Don
July 2, 2011

He has as much right to express his opinion as you have.  And don't worry about him managing the Internet, he doesn't.

Merv Adrian
July 2, 2011

Drew and Arash – thanks for aggressively communicating. This is steadily moving in the right direction. I remain concerned about a few of the words above: “distribute, prepare derivative works…or publicly display…”

Prepare derivate works? I don't want you translating my content. Format conversion is a wonderful and useful service and I thank you for it. But “such as…” implies you may prepare derivative works in some other way. What does that mean? Excerpts for a “best of” marketing program? I don't want you to do that, flattered though I would be.

'Public display.” Much of this would be simpler if your language more specifically pointed to the distinction between what I designate as Public and what I do not. For example:

Distribute within established and agreed privacy constraint (my folders are only to be seen by me UNLESS I made them public?) I'm good.

I'm a huge fan of Dropbox, and I do believe you're trying to clarify for us. Keep whittling away at this, please. It still leaves a bit to be desired.

Sora
July 2, 2011

That's a harsh accusation. A lot of people actually do appreciate the services it offers. Some of us are about to consult legalese-savvy people about this new TOS, but the convenience is a huge plus that a lot of people feel like commenting on, that's it.

Steve Krause
July 2, 2011

Great blog post guys.  Very happy to see this kind of transparency from Dropbox.  A model if you ask me.

MrGroove
July 2, 2011

Thanks guys for the blog post.  I appreciate the transparency and further classification.  Great 7/2 update as well.

Don
July 2, 2011

When was the last time you saw any legal agreement that favored the other party?  I'm not a lawyer, but this doesn't look any worse than any other TOS I've seen.  The legal system doesn't have any requirements, but if you don't cover every base in the agreement, the first time there's a legal challenge, you have nothing to protect you.  That's where all the legal details come in; they're not required, you just better not leave them out or you'll be screwed when somebody sues you.

Prairahong
July 2, 2011

I want to use dropbox continue and I believe you want to clarify for me to use dropbox.

Sudz48
July 2, 2011

I personally have no problem. There are risks in all we do, especially online. I prefer to remain with DropBox. If your files are so highly sensitive then why aren't you encrypting them on your end?

Attilio Radomile
July 2, 2011

Los riesgos hay que asumirlos, ya saldrá alguna solución para esto, pero yo sigo utilizando DROP BOX.

Webmacman
July 2, 2011

Thanks Dropbox!  I appreciate your service and appreciate this email.  You have things that the lawyers say you need to convey just to stay in compliance with everything. As a Commercial Banker for 28 years, I understand that.

Thanks, and keep up the great work!

K_luck
July 2, 2011

Thank You for, revising your Terms of Service, Privacy Policy and Security Overview.

Skallon
July 2, 2011

This sounds like good corporate policy to me given our new reality with cloud based services. Good job.

James M
July 2, 2011

One less ignorant user then

Vanguard Bookkeeping
July 2, 2011

Agree – I see some are panicking needlessly.
There is scope to simplify further :

“We sometimes need your permission to do what you ask us to do with your
stuff (for example, hosting, making public, or sharing your files). By
submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work
with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free,
serviceable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works
(such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly
display that stuff to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.
This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display,
and operate the Services. You must ensure you have the rights you need
to grant us that permission.”

Why not “We won't do anything with your stuff (for example, hosting, making public, or sharing your files) unless you ask us. Your asking us us to do things with your stuff constitutes license to provide the service. This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display, and operate the Services. You must ensure you have the rights you need to grant us that permission.”

Trust is indeed a most valuable asset. That DB are requesting and acting on our input is a significant act of trust in the DB community

chrs
July 2, 2011

hi amin. thks for advice. how would that actually work? I create a TrueCrypt Volume/container say in my root directory within dropbox. Then I copy all my thousand files into the container.  Would that automatically encrypt all thousand files into that container?

TTEchidna
July 2, 2011

DB exists in the United States, where the Fourth Amendment no longer applies since the Patriot Act. And we can blame both Bush and Obama for that piece of tyrranical nonsense still being on the books.

Don
July 2, 2011

I don't understand your comment. If you encrypt data, you have the only encryption key that will decrypt it.

purengom
July 2, 2011

Well, As first time I've said, it wasn't substantial problem so soon fixed. and I think they did. They confined license to only 'enable us to technically administer, display, and operate the Services'(in other words they licensed only for dropbox itself, and uses it technical purpose) . You may find my another comment in this post. they need to be licensed to utilize some function legally. and as all I said. still continue to use or not is up to all yours.

Vanguard Bookkeeping
July 2, 2011

If you had files in your DB public folder and you sent the link to it to someone, then they passed that link around so others downloaded, performed and/or publicly displayed the work, then DB cannot be held responsible – and they should not be. Contents of the public folder can be obtained without an account – it is supposed to work that way – it's why we put stuff in the public folder.
As regards private/shared folders – in sharing a file or folder we grant DB a license to give other parties rights to our stuff.
I guess what we want to see is “We won't do anything with your stuff without your permission”

allanwhite
July 2, 2011

Can someone show me an example of this actually occurring?

Nothing but FUD. The sky is not falling, people.

I'm staying – still happy – until I see some real problems, not theoretical ones.

Rob
July 2, 2011

Seems fair and reasonable, a direct reflection of leadership with logic and integrity.

Don
July 2, 2011

It seems to me that protection of your own property is your responsibility. If you fail to use due diligence and expect someone else to protect you (unless you are specifically paying them to provide such protection), you're going to be mightily disappointed.

Yawar Amin
July 2, 2011

Here's one basic strategy. Say you have a 2 GB Dropbox and you want to use 1 GB for sensitive info. Create a 1 GB TrueCrypt volume (let's call it the S: drive) inside the Dropbox root, as you said. Drop your sensitive files inside S:. Drop your not-so-sensitive files elsewhere inside the Dropbox folder.

There are several other strategies. Lifehacker has a good rundown: http://lifehacker.com/5794486/

Don
July 2, 2011

“Too many security lapses”??  Have there been previous ones?

Undo
July 2, 2011

First, it seems I did not receive any email about this policy changes.

Then, what's the hell is the clause about sublicensing my stuff ?

No no no, a sentence like “slolely to enable us to technically administer display and opera the Services” is not enough to counter balance the fact you are saying just above you want to sublicense our stuff.

Modifying, displaying, etc. etc. the stuff to administer the system, ok, understandable. BUT NO YOU DON'T NEED TO SUBLICENSE MY STUFF TO MAKE YOU SYSTEM work, so please get rid of that couple of words that will make me leave dropbox soon if they remain.

Vanguard Bookkeeping
July 2, 2011

“We may stop, suspend, or modify the Services at any time without prior
notice to you.”
This has me a little concerned.
1. I own MY stuff, including copies of older versions of files hosted on DB. If the service is to be stopped, suspended or modified, I expect and demand the opportunity to retrieve ALL of my files – not to have my access summarily terminated. Perhaps include that 7 day period from notification filles can still be accessed, even if that is just web-based access.

2. “We may also remove any content from our Services at our discretion”
How does DB determine what content should be removed?
If DB means that if, say, they learn a public DB link is to both inappropriate and illegal content, then the public link to the file/s SHOULD be blocked and law enforcement advised. otherwise, I am no happy with with passage.

Bas Msc
July 2, 2011

JAson, you are assuming people with client software installed on a computer that has not crashed.

Don
July 2, 2011

Yes, that's more explicit.  I think it's probably what DropBox intended, but their language leaves doubts with too many people.

Don
July 2, 2011

I think this is what DropBox tried to say, too, but they stumbled in trying to reduce it to “common” language, making it sound much more malevolent.  I'll bet if they just adopted that language, they would establish the same protections but avoid most of this backlash.

sffunfunfunfun
July 2, 2011

Calm down. The e-mails are going out in batches because they have to send millions of them. I just received mine, even though this update has been all over TC and HN all morning.

sffunfunfunfun
July 2, 2011

So fucking just fucking LEAVE already. Stop complaining. Go to a rival service, and don't come back.

sffunfunfunfun
July 2, 2011

Bye bye.

sffunfunfunfun
July 2, 2011

You're an “ex” customer. Why are you here? Go away.

Macka
July 2, 2011

What exactly is it about the policies you don't like?

BD2
July 2, 2011

Undo, you misread that statement. They are using “solely” as in “is only.” They are trying to be upfront about altering files (translation and formatting) after you have asked them to. It helps to read the whole statement.

sffunfunfunfun
July 2, 2011

Wow. So much hate from shills for rival companies.

What exactly would you like them to change? What rival services provide a differentiated offering and have different legal terms that would make you stay?

If you understand the intent, then how differently should they “word” it?

sffunfunfunfun
July 2, 2011

Reading comprehension FAIL.

sffunfunfunfun
July 2, 2011

They already state that. Read the document more carefully.

Blah
July 2, 2011

Sounds good, thanks.

Macka
July 2, 2011

When you get a public link, when you put stuff in the public folder, when you share stuff, they need your permission to do so, simple as that.

Bob
July 2, 2011

The point here is that the supplier has no need to sub-license at all.  While I accept a couple of your points, the position that Dropbox are taking is far beyond 'covering their ass'.  There are much better and far less invasive ways to word the TOS.

Don
July 2, 2011

You are making a self-serving analogy by comparing DropBox with a bank and deposit boxes.  That's not a valid comparison, it's not what most people use DropBox for.

Bob
July 2, 2011

Not if you've just signed away a royalty-free sublicense to all your 'stuff'.

Bob
July 2, 2011

Speaking as a lawyer, you haven't got a clue what you are talking about Joe.  Laura Anne and Mattrajotte1 are absolutely right.

Marijane
July 2, 2011

Basically, I use this service only to transfer data from one of my computers to the other.  I hope I am deleting it completely when the transfer is completed.  I have no need for you to store anything.  My needs are being met, thank you.

finis33
July 2, 2011

I am a lawyer and tech guy and can tell you that the language reads to a lawyer the same as you are reading it. By removing the 'legalese' to make things easier they've actually created an ambiguity as to whether they can use your stuff for their needs, such as marketing.

finis33
July 2, 2011

I am a lawyer and tech guy and can tell you that the language reads to a lawyer the same as you are reading it. By removing the 'legalese' to make things easier they've actually created an ambiguity as to whether they can use your stuff for their needs, such as marketing.

finis33
July 2, 2011

I am a lawyer and tech guy and can tell you that the language reads to a lawyer the same as you are reading it. By removing the 'legalese' to make things easier they've actually created an ambiguity as to whether they can use your stuff for their needs, such as marketing.

finis33
July 2, 2011

I am a lawyer and tech guy and can tell you that the language reads to a lawyer the same as you are reading it. By removing the 'legalese' to make things easier they've actually created an ambiguity as to whether they can use your stuff for their needs, such as marketing.

CmUnityBuild
July 2, 2011

Can you make changes to the iphone app – I would really like to be able to edit documents on my iphone – is that possible?

Not Happy
July 2, 2011

Bye bye Dropbox. (Mainly due to the recent security fuck up)

Matthew Dt
July 2, 2011

Thanks – I'm glad it's not just me.  But I still can't believe that's what they intended.  Come on Dropbox guys – sort it out!

Don
July 2, 2011

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer.  But I believe the reason that lawyers often put a lot of extra language into an agreement when it may not really apply is this: it is common practice in a court of civil law to rely on past interpretations of certain standard language.  So if a document has language that has never been interpreted before, it would be inefficient and risky to include it, because then any court proceedings would be slowed to a crawl while the lawyers argue about what it means.  But if they can include a standard paragraph or sentence that has lots of legal precedent, they know exactly how it will be interpreted in court.  You may not like that, but it's the way our legal system works.

Braynstream
July 2, 2011

There's an iPhone app called nebulous for that nebulous lite is the free version

Don
July 2, 2011

Come on, do you really think they would risk the lawsuit that would certainly result from such a stupid move? There's no way a court of law would side with them, even if they had this language in their terms of service.  That's not what they're in business to do.

rekzkarz.com
July 2, 2011

Thanks for clarification. Many TOS changes are less bold and don't invite discussion in a (somewhat) public forum. Props for that.

I'm not sure what all are upset about. For me, dropbox is a great place to keep word processin in-development, and share fotos & some files. Not where you keep your password backups!!!

Seems fairly fine, I'd like the people complaining to articulate “WHY” for me & for the Dropbox folks. Gracias.

Don
July 2, 2011

Surely the MAC address.  It's a way to have some confidence that they can trace a challenged transaction back to its source, if necessary.  I don't have any qualms about that.

Don
July 2, 2011

I've spent hours on here today!  Maybe I should bill DropBox for my time?

Rapscallion
July 2, 2011

It was great while what lasted?  Your service and account with DropBox?  If your leaving because of the new TOS etc. then what was it from the original docs that you want put back in these ones?  What was added that you don't like?  I find it hard to believe you even read through the original TOS.  If you are really serious about your comment, then I would be willing to bet that if you were to read any other TOS for any other service you have (Facebook, MySpace, gmail, yahoo mail, Twitter etc.) you would leave those as well.

I'll be honest, I never read the original TOS etc. when I signed up (I rarely do).  But if you can answer either of the above 2 questions I posed then please do. I may be able to learn something and find reason to cancel my account as well.  

If you can't answer the above q's with any anything constructive, then what was the point of the comment.  It only makes you sound like a kid a in play ground, upset, throwing his weight around and spouting what the cool kids are saying. Even if he doesn't understand what they are talking about.

Santiagoufu
July 3, 2011

Basically, I use this service only to transfer data from one of my
computers to the other.

Shane
July 3, 2011

Now all we need is some service improvements that clients actually see, like for example more plans / flexibility in space :-)

somadude
July 3, 2011

Dibs on Not-so-happy's server space!

Rapscallion
July 3, 2011

I can agree with your sentiment, but you sound like the 15 year old in grade 6 who has no idea what's going on.  But feels empowered when can push everyone else around.

sffunfunfunfun
July 3, 2011

Why, yes I do. :-) You can go away too.

Hezron
July 3, 2011

Dropbox probably won't miss you.

Posey 
July 3, 2011

To clarify, money really has nothing to do with it. I assumed the TOS was the same for paid and free account. I was simply making a point that I would rather pay a company, with the assurance that they have no rights over my files, than a free place that does.

I don't pretend or claim to know the ends and outs of legal terms. I won't pretend to know what all the TOS means to the absolute. But when I read that they have rights over my files, my red flags shoot up. Will something happen? Likely not. However, I am more comfortable not using the service than to agree to the new TOS.

It was and still is a genius set-up. It is a shame that the TOS has changed, because I used dropbox on a daily basis. My cancellation is not my protest against dropbox. It is their right as a company to change their TOS anytime they please. It is also my right to disagree whenever I choose. I disagree, and therefore I choose not to use it. It is as simple as that.

As for James M, to call someone ignorant over this … please. Grow up.

BR
July 3, 2011

I find Dropbox a significant useful device for my business any improvement in security will give me more confidence. Please keep on with it.

Viswanathankasi2
July 3, 2011

updation is required for every one. good one

somadude
July 3, 2011

Yes, because they are rolling in dough to the point they can just cut checks to all their paying customers, or make a massive storage investment to fulfill your notion of entitlement masquerading as victimization.

Ilhaan
July 3, 2011

Dropbox is an amazing tool. I use it for college and look forward to using it in the long run as well.

David Pesta
July 3, 2011

No it doesn't. The terms say that the license is solely to enable them to technically operate the services, not financially operate the services.

Diane_kelvin
July 3, 2011

IS THIS SERIOUS?????????? >> “By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare
derivative works,
perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent reasonably
necessary for the Service.”

Are you people crazy??????????? I'll sue you to the rest of your freaking lives if you use anything stored in my files!!! I have sensitive data stored in my dropbox!!! Doesn't matter your freaking terms of service, I don't have to agree with it, if you use what is mine, I will sue!!!! IT IS MINEEEEEE and if you use I'll drag you all to hell with ME!!!

Also, all files should be incripted by default. There is no reason why you should need access to any user files!!!

mtp
July 3, 2011

I like to add regarding security— Is there a way we can prevent our folder recipients from deleting files inside it? or selectively chose who can delete files? change or modify files (those who change files can be reflected on the filename (i.e document (mofified by  xxxx@yahoo.com.docx)

Its
July 3, 2011

You must choose, either our property is ONLY our property – because you can't do 'any derivative works' – on any circumstances, or you choose to make our property public without our explicit written consent on any item. For example I don't wish my source code become public, it may be unique and, if I choose to back it up, that doesn't mean I choose to make it public. Don't play dirty or, you'll screw your own business and reputation for good and forever.

Pat
July 3, 2011

Ditto! I was deciding which paid plan to upgrade to from my current free status. No way in hell will I do it now. Looks like I'll be going back to using thumbdrives – they are coming in bigger and bigger GB's now so it'll be no problem.

Diane_kelvin
July 3, 2011

This is really serious>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “”"rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare
derivative works”"

I have books, screenplays and studio files on my dropbox
of things being released and that will be released….

Wonder what will happen if you guys decide to USE…. COPY, DISTRIBUTE, PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS out of a movie studio' scripts…….

Marvane20817
July 3, 2011

Amen!!!!!

IS THIS SERIOUS?????????? >> “By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.”

Please respond to these comments.

Ozymandias

Fusako TAMURA
July 3, 2011

What do you want me to do actually?

Wander Nauta
July 3, 2011

He probably had a free account anyway.

Leoboy39
July 3, 2011

I love you folks, you make my life easier. The other day, I misplaced my flash drive, and it wasn't a big deal thanks to dropbox.

Geri
July 3, 2011

Bye-bye Dropbox, welcome SugarSync!

Pissed off ex customer
July 3, 2011

@sffunfunfunfun I'm now an ex customer. Was a customer till now, and closed the account. Letting the company know why they're losing my business. Perhaps someone is listening. Or perhaps not. But I'll at least offer a reason why I've quit.

@Don changing terms and conditions for files they already host is a overstepping my rights and the agreement I uploaded those files under. I doubt its only applicable to new uploads. And I have not agreed to any new terms either, which is a requirement of setting up the service but apparently not required once they change the terms however they feel fit.

This change was probably due to a knee jerk reaction from a threat of litigation, and now someone is running scared so they want to blanket with a new TOS that gives them unreasonable rights. Its unreasonable and overstepping their bounds. 

In case you haven't noticed, there's more people than just me who's upset by this. 

Taylorja35
July 3, 2011

Well, in the past two weeks I've had to recover all my Dropbox folders twice twice. All of them had been deleted.

What was (is) the problem? Is this going to happen again??

imjustcreative
July 3, 2011

Evernote has similar references within their TOC's. I still use Evernote and I will still use Dropbox.

My choice is to limit the sensitive data I upload to these services and use them only for more practical applications that help me get more from my work set-up.

You have a choice to stay or leave. No one is forcing you to upload your sensitive data anywhere.

RegorTellah
July 3, 2011

Tks Chris – this is the question DB must answer – YES or NO! Not maybe. Like others, I have sensitive stuff on DB now as I was 'sold' on the benefits of having it 'safe' in the cloud. I am an author and have drafts of my works on the service – it is NOT available for distribution to anybody if it is in a Private folder even if I share it with myself on another computer or iPad. Looks like I now have to investigate other offerings from MS and Apple. If they can assure me of real privacy, it is Bye Bye DB for me (after I have recommended the BD service to many people).

RegorTellah
July 3, 2011

Tks Chris – this is the question DB must answer – YES or NO! Not maybe. Like others, I have sensitive stuff on DB now as I was 'sold' on the benefits of having it 'safe' in the cloud. I am an author and have drafts of my works on the service – it is NOT available for distribution to anybody if it is in a Private folder even if I share it with myself on another computer or iPad. Looks like I now have to investigate other offerings from MS and Apple. If they can assure me of real privacy, it is Bye Bye DB for me (after I have recommended the BD service to many people).

Don
July 3, 2011

Nothing will happen, because that's not what the TOS means. If it did, you could sue them into bankruptcy because it would be illegal for them to do that and the law trumps any agreement. Take a deep breath and calm down.  Read some of the explanations here of what is intended.  I agree that their language is confusing, even disturbing, and I image they will clarify it, after all this backlash, but if that's what they were trying to do, they would certainly not have been so pro-active in emailing and providing this forum to air the questions and criticisms.

angry_user
July 3, 2011

to late. bye.

Don
July 3, 2011

Diane, why don't you tell us how you really feel?

Noah Bradley
July 3, 2011

Honestly, the folks worried about copyright issues likely have not nor will ever produce anything worth stealing.

You really think Dropbox is gonna take the effort to read through your screenplay so they can take it for themselves? Please.

Keep providing amazing service, Dropbox! You've saved my life on a number of occasions. :)

perigee
July 3, 2011

Why don't you have your counsel look at the Terms from SugarSync? They seem more sane and still workable:

After setting up your account and downloading our Software, you can select the Files you want to sync and/or store. You can change the Files you want to sync or store whenever you want. In order to make the Service available to you, we need your permission to sync and store your Files. Accordingly, you hereby grant to SugarSync a license: (i) to use, copy, transmit, distribute, store and cache Files that you choose to sync and/or store; and (ii) to copy, transmit, publish, and distribute to others the Files as you designate, whether through the sharing or public linking features of the Service, in each case solely to provide the Service to you.

The way you phrase your terms, however, reads to me like an Aspberger's Syndrome Geek asking for all the rights possibly imaginable up front so you can do anything you want with my data and then just asking me to trust you that you won't abuse that.

Not really cool.

Fortunately, I mostly store encrypted files on DropBox. But your current terms will strengthen my resolve to keep that up. Which is your loss and mine. If I felt more comfortable trusting you with my content, I would feel more comfortable recommending your service to others.

RegorTellah
July 3, 2011

Password backups are great stored in the cloud. That's when you need them – when you area way from your own computer and simply just must have that bloody password to get at a missing ticket number from a remote location internet cafe. Open DB, get the encrypted MS file, retrieve password, close file, (save customer's life!). Otherwise, it is back to carrying around a mem-stick with all the security probs that has.

J Charles Swift
July 3, 2011

You're a tech guy who quadruple posts?

Voice of Reason
July 3, 2011

First, calm down. Remember that they can only do any of these things as may be required to provide you with the Dropbox service. They can't go using your files to create their own creative works, because that would be outside the scope of the license you granted to them.

When they “use” your works, that just means they can make use of them as required to store them and present them to you as part of providing you the Dropbox service. “copy” means they can copy it from one backup server to another (for example). Distribute means they can send it to you wherever you are. Prepare derivative works means they can, for example, reformat your files to present them to you in a useful format (like, if you're on a mobile device and want to see a document in a format that your device doesn't support. Perform and publicly display are terms of copyright law, and, like “use”, just mean they can make use of the works to show them to you.

Karel
July 3, 2011

It seems this is a really smart way of DropBox to cull some really dumb users, i.e. the type that by their stupid actions and remarks would make it impossible to provide such an excellent service for free.

Bye bye, morons!

RegorTellah
July 3, 2011

I really don't like:
“By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work
with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free,
sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works
(such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly
display that stuff to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.”

Please clarify that my Private folders will remain just that.

Parker
July 3, 2011

This is legalese. They don't own your files, but they need your permission to distribute, etc or else the service can no lover function. Distribute to your computers, not to the world! They produce derivative copies when they take chunks of files that have changes and distribute those chunks to update your current folder — it doesn't waste bandwidth nor does it waste disk space.

Chill! You're ok. :)

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Dropbox's biggest problem seems to be overestimating the intelligence of their users. No matter how many times Arash and Drew say it, the users don't seem to get it.  The license being granted is, in all cases, limited to the “extent reasonably necessary for the Service.”  PERIOD.  They can't sell somebody's movie script because selling a movie script isn't necessary for them to offer the Service.People are just effen' paranoid.Say it over and over again, until you get it: limited to the “extent reasonably necessary for the Service.”Period.Anything else, like making all of your files public just because they feel like it or changing your artwork and then selling it on eBay are all STRICTLY PROHIBITED by what is currently in their TOS.Who can predict, with certainty, that there won't be the ability to share information with somebody in another country THAT YOU PRE-AUTHORIZE, but will be made much more efficient if DropBox were to build in a translation capability?  That is the kind of derivative work that the TOS contemplate.  They can create a derivative work only if it is reasonably necessary to offer the Service.  Nothing else.Maybe a browser of the future requires rendering a file for display in pdf format, but you uploaded the file in .docx format.  If DropBox senses that your browser will give you an error message if the docx file is sent for display, it can switch to a pdf version automatically (and will probably tell you that it is doing so while it does its magic).  That would be prohibited if you didn't authorize the “derivative work” clause.Say it again: limited to the “extent reasonably necessary for the Service.”Say it one more time, with feeling this time: LIMITED TO THE “EXTENT REASONABLY NECESSARY FOR THE SERVICE.”Got it, yet?

Satya M.
July 3, 2011

Thats it, I am out! Paying for you to have my confidential files, AND give you all rights? F that! Byebye – dropbox!

Jeff
July 3, 2011

Is there a section about “we promise not to expose all your data again”? Why not? Where are the terms of that outline why we should trust you again? It wasn't a hack, it was negligence. Systems that allow negligence once are likely to do it again.

Address the things we care about, not covering your ass about hypothetical future copyright threats.

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Because SugarSync's lawyers aren't thinking ahead.  Either that, or they are not guilty of overestimating the intelligence of their users.  Once you've got the “reasonably necessary to offer the Service” clause, DropBox's hands are very much tied as to what they can do with what is stored and therefore their lawyers are SMART to build in as much capability as they can so that DropBox can roll out advanced services without delay.

It is just SMART drafting.

I could be cynical and say that SugarSync's lawyers know that SugarSync will need to pay them to modify the TOS if they come up with an advanced offering, while DropBox's lawyers know that what they have written will stand up even after DropBox develops an advanced offering.  But lawyers don't think that way, do they? ;-)

Guest1234
July 3, 2011

Dropbox used to be one of the best, coolest, most honest, and most considerate companies in the world. I used to take pride in using Dropbox. But now, after they lied to everyone about “encryption,” and now that they take ownership of everyone's files, I'm done. I loved Dropbox, but now I'm done. I'm moving permanently to SugarSync, where even though I'll have 3GB LESS storage, it won't be run by pretentious douchebags.

Stuart
July 3, 2011

Okay, the revelations that everything was hidden behind a single key and the massive breach where everyone's files were completely accessible to everyone were bad.

This is the last straw. I'll be looking for an alternative.

douglas brush
July 3, 2011

We get we own our stuff and that you have backed technical management needs – its the rights to use we have issue with. We understand you have a need to indemnify yourself of risk to certain levels from a sharing service such as this. But don't treat us like idiots. Stop with the bro-hyme attitude that “oh man sorry dudes, but the $600/hr white shoe AM100 lawyers are making us do this! We're still buds right?” No we're not and never were. You are a just a service that many trusted for data life cycle management and after the 4 hour yard sale you had with our accounts sorry if we are a bit alarmed by this updated TOS that is obviously written as a way for you to wash your hands from data breaches under the guise of copywrite law. As interesting as it would be to live in a world free of accountability, the trust level that users put in your hands with our data is the core of your business model. You might have lost touch with this while getting wined and dined by VCs dangling the IPO carrot, but without reoccurring revenue (hint: customers) you might as well start stitching the DropBox sock puppet now. Users want a simple, convenient and safe way to work with their data. If you are now telling us this can only be provided by you having carte blanc digital rights then we can (and will) go somewhere else.

Elijah Gregory
July 3, 2011

Google's TOS is twacked as well.  Why is the license perpetual?  Why can't the license be revoked the moment we remove our Stuff from your servers?

Bistekamachado
July 3, 2011

Thats it, I am out! Paying for you to have my confidential files, AND give you all rights? F that! Byebye – dropbox!
I Agree!!!!

Aasdfasdf
July 3, 2011

Use truecrypt dumbass

Hungry Internet Hippo
July 3, 2011

Your ill-informed rage is delicious. Mmmm, mmmm, more! MORE! I NEED MORE PEOPLE UNABLE TO READ A BLOG POST PROPERLY, TO FEED MY ETERNAL THIRST FOR NOOBS!

Tastes like internet chicken.

Giorgio Galante
July 3, 2011

I shelled out $200 for this?  Bye bye DropBox.

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Truecrypt is really too slow when dealing with large datasets, chunks or no chunks.

I wish that DropBox had a seamless offering to encrypt on the fly so that, locally, the data remains unencrypted, but before transmission it becomes encrypted.  This is a file by file request.

Simon Garlick
July 3, 2011

By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extentreasonably necessary for the Service. This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display, and operate the Services. You must ensure you have the rights you need to grant us that permission.

Say I'm a designer and I've purchased some stock imagery for use in a client project and I've stored my original purchased copies of the images in my Dropbox. Great, I'm now either in breach of Dropbox's terms of service and I'm screwed if anything goes wrong, or I'm in breach of the license for the imagery I purchased.

Say I'm a musician and I record pieces of music and license them to my clients for their own uses, and I store my copies of the works in my Dropbox. Great, now I'm committing fraud whenever I sell an exclusive license to a client. Because having them in Dropbox means I've also licensed my work to someone else.

My reading of the Terms of Service above suggests that the terms give worldwide rights to my content not only to Dropbox but to any of Dropbox's partners, and those partners can themselves sublicense my content to anyone else they choose without my permission or knowledge. Correct?

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

No, you are just a below average intelligence DropBox user who doesn't understand English.  See my comment below, but while you are doing so, repeat this mantra:

“to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.”

Georges
July 3, 2011

This makes me worried on my data. I love Dropbox, I have 5 paid accounts. We loved dropbox for that beautiful idea & service. It made our life easier. We are not our IT to have our own data servers, we found in Dropbox what we need & trusted them on our files & data.
I appreciate Dropbox transparency, but the new TOS makes me worry.
If I have to encrypt every files before I upload, that's not making my life easy.

I don't have top secret files in Dropbox, but every file on mine is private, I don't want anyone to put his hand on or be public.

I just feel disappointed, Ill remove non-encrypted files from my accounts, till the final TOS is out.
Then I'll decide what is my next step.

Climbr
July 3, 2011

Thanks for the great service, Dropbox. Keep it up.

Elijah Gregory
July 3, 2011

Wow John the Guest, you appear to genuinely trust Drew and Aresh (or whoever might end up owning the company) to make sure “the Service” remains limited in definition.

Bchan
July 3, 2011

Sounds like Reddit won.

Ryan Kearney
July 3, 2011

I already left when you let anyone log into anyone else's Dropbox account with any password.  Not to mention you jumping on the defensive by sending a DMCA to the user who came up with the fancy scripting to exploit your deduplication to add files to their Dropbox that they didn't actually have in their possession. IANAL but I believe it's illegal to send invalid DMCA's out. Is Dropbox under new management or something? What made this company go to complete shit over the course of a few months.

Nicole Marie Rincon
July 3, 2011

And with that update I'm out. Bye Bye dropbox!

Neo
July 3, 2011

Its funny because people complain about ToS when they probably haven't read any ToS in his life. That comment is from someone who don't even own his website domain!

Domain Name: galantesoftware.com

Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.

Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com

Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com

you are a joke.
bye bye troll.

Please dumb-asses, delete your account. Dropbox, give us the space that the newfags are emptying.

Jim
July 3, 2011

Like I really needed yet another reason to cancel my account?

Jim

douglas brush
July 3, 2011

“John the Guest” You keep repeating this “to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.” Thank you for eloquently enlightening everyone with your snotty comments with your mastering of English prose. However the issue we have is that this is NOT clearly defined and therefore is the problem. What constitutes “reasonably necessary” and why should it be acceptable to absolve right to use in the way they have defined it for DLP?

خالد
July 3, 2011

thanks.

Elijah Gregory
July 3, 2011

Also, the license is perpetual and irrevocable which is not reasonably necessary to provide the service.

Edvardt
July 3, 2011

Yes I also share the same concern that Marvane20817, Diane_kelvin and I am sure many others have. If that means Dropbox can “use, copy, distribute, prepare
derivative works' out of the contents submitted by users, then, either it can be serious or simple – most of us will simply remove the stuff and stop using the service. So, you have to make the choice, and be wise. And thanks for the fidelity.

Buffone68
July 3, 2011

thanks

Tj Geezer
July 3, 2011

IANAL but I found the TOS and licensing docs to be very clear. A qualified shark of the briefcase-bearing Snarkus Gimme Gimme species might find a handy ambiguity somewhere but I thought it was all clear enough. And it doesn't make me all nervous either.

@Georges – you might look up SecretSync – it puts AES encryption on files transparently, then copies them to your local Dropbox folder. It is all done on your own machine. If you move your Dropbox contents to SecretSync, all your Dropbox files will be encrypted automatically, no input needed from you once you set it up and you can dream up a passphrase it will require if you need to reinstall. It's quite a well thought out approach.
See http://getsecretsync.com/ss/ge… (I have no interest in or relationship to SecretSync except as a user of the service)

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Douglass, I will treat you like a human, even though you think my comments are snotty.  They aren't snotty, the are TRUE.

Ready for a lesson in the law?  Here goes.  Hope you are up to it.  In unilateral contracts (and that is what this is, because it is drafted by one side, without input from the other side) the courts will ALWAYS resolve ambiguities in favor of the side that did not write the contract.  To make this clear, that means that to the extent “reasonably necessary” is not further defined, it falls upon DropBox's shoulders to clearly demonstrate that whatever they do is within the definition of “reasonably necessary.”

It is in the users' best interest to have reasonably necessary undefined, as then if a controversy arises, DropBox has to defend its actions.

By the way, the term “reasonably necessary” may be, in some jurisdictions, already defined (states have the authority to do so, but I'm not aware of any court cases that have done so to date).  If they were to do so, then further “clarity” on the part of DropBox as to what “reasonably necessary” means would be null and void in that jurisdiction anyway.

The bottom line is that anybody with 1/2 a brain will realize that the way they drafted it is GOOD for their users.

I've ignored you last 1/2 sentence because it is gibberish.  If you elaborate I'll respond.

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Mind citing the paragraph where the words “perpetual” or “irrevocable” show up?

Trefoil
July 3, 2011

Which half of your brain is left?

Tj Geezer
July 3, 2011

Look into SecretSync – that's exactly what it does, all encryption local. I have no relationship to them except as a user. The info page is at:
http://getsecretsync.com/ss/ge

Basically, you copy your local data to the local SecretSync folder, which applies AES encryption and copies the encrypted version to your local Dropbox folder.

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

You are paranoid.  READ THE FOLLOWING:

“We sometimes need your permission to do what you ask us to do with your stuff…”

The only permissions you are granting are with respect to things that you ask them to do.  I know, I know.  Too confusing for you.  <shrug></shrug>

Cheza Mononoke
July 3, 2011

Don't complain about it their privacy when you can't even take care of your own.

http://pastebin.com/6N4h1kYx

Elijah Gregory
July 3, 2011

That would be in Googles' TOS: “11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you
already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through,
the Services. By submitting, posting or displaying the content you
give Google a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and
non-exclusive license to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish,
publicly perform, publicly display and distribute any Content which you
submit, post or display on or through, the Services. This license is
for the sole purpose of enabling Google to display, distribute and
promote the Services and may be revoked for certain Services as defined
in the Additional Terms of those Services.”So my mistake, Googles' is twacked, the Dropbox TOS is better.

Ronci
July 3, 2011

Everyone seems confused by the language and I must admit after reading the TOS and the comments even though I do not consider myself to be an imbecile, I am slightly befuddled. This is my interpretation: All the contents of my drop box are mine and non-shareable unless I authorize dropbox to do something different. Sharing or making public any of the contents is what is being said. In that case, unless I authorized this it would not happen. Right?

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Right.

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Seems very promising.  Thanks.  I'll check it out.

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Are you familiar with sets and supersets?  Your 1/2 brain is a superset to your brain.  Mine is merely a set.

Alicia
July 3, 2011

And with this added fail, I've just removed all my files from Dropbox and uninstalled it. Bye.

Jane the Guest
July 3, 2011

And you're an arrogant douchebag who needs their breathing privileges revoked.

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Jane, my love (we have the same last name so we must be related), is there a specific comment I've made that you quarrel with?  If so, let me know.  If not, let me go.

Edwin Watkeys
July 3, 2011

Between your extreme over-reaction and use of “fail” as a noun[1], you've pretty much guaranteed that no one will take you seriously. You were smart not to attach your last name to your post.

[1] “Fail” is a useful idiom as it provides us a simple means of identifying hopeless try-hards.

Guest
July 3, 2011

You've clearly not been using the internet long.

Georges
July 3, 2011

Thank You

Edwin Watkeys
July 3, 2011

A hint: the Internet is rotten with hopeless try-hards. And I have been on the Internet since 1991 — and before that on UUNET since 1989.

Bitmac
July 3, 2011

I am not sure how a “normal” ..ie none legal..person is supposed to respond to this TOS. I honestly do not understand the full implications of my continuing use of the service. I like the Dropbox (DB) service and for now will continue to use it. Having said that there is great deal of ambiguity about the TOS implications that worries me. Common sense says DB is only responding to industry legislative pressures and for various reasons they feel they are compelled to do this (not unlike other internet type service providers).  Most likely for most users  nothing significant will come of this HOWEVER this is clearly a warning ….we ..patrons of the service … have been duly notified  and legal measures are in place. As I said what this means exactly is unclear. Please clarify. As patrons of this very useful service we are entitled to this. Having said that, thank you for the initial communication I look forward to receiving further clarification.

Dbullard
July 3, 2011

Yay flame war from someone talking outside there scope of understanding of the law and technology while using basic computer programing terminology to try to sound intelligent. I guess its easy to be belligerent when hiding being the anonymity of the Internet.

Zahirsharf
July 3, 2011

Thanks for informing…

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

There, their, Dbullard. Whatever.  By the way, if you have a specific point that you think I used incorrectly, please elaborate.  But I promise you I can take you on in set theory, technology and the law.  Bring it on.

Dan
July 3, 2011

Thanks very much for your clear and concise summaries. It would be really handy if you sent this, or something like it, to all the users as well.

Chhansen
July 3, 2011

I hope this doesn't mean that I have to go back to uploading everything to my email account to transfer stuff. lol

quodo
July 3, 2011

to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.

Simon Garlick
July 3, 2011

The Dropbox terms look incompatible with the GPL. So you're breaching terms if you store any GPLd material in a Dropbox.

quodo
July 3, 2011

Which part of “to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.” which is quite narrow did you not understand? Also, threats? Really?

quodo
July 3, 2011

Thanks for taking some time to explain all of this :)

To all people whining: you were probably just looking for a reason to leave, so please do, that'll be more server space for us to use.

Dbullard
July 3, 2011

Well you are talking down to everyone trying to have a conversation about the subject,  being nasty while hiding your identity. There are debate points you fail to see and make absolute statements that are not accurate. Why would I bother with someone who can't have an intelligent conversation with some form of transparency? No one knows you and based upon the way you have handled yourself only leads one to believe you are promoting an agenda. Sorry.

Guillermochc
July 3, 2011

Muy util para enviar archivos pesados a proveedores en el extrangero.
Gracias

Carla Baker
July 3, 2011

Carla Baker, thank you for keeping me informed. I greatly appreciate it.

Bzde
July 3, 2011

are you still the good guys? i mean you're not like those crooked whores at google now are you?

Speklvd
July 3, 2011

We are a group of 8 persons and we use the dropbox every week to share documents which have to be updated and seen by different persons. It is really great that we can use this service.

Dale
July 3, 2011

How nice to see acompany that values transparency and is willing to explain the the legaleze you must accept to use the product.

Kudos

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Not everybody, just those who don't understand the English language.  Are you among them?  You must be because you failed to engage me on any specific point.  You can hide behind your phobia of the anonymous all you want, but it is a transparent attempt merely to duck anything specific.  Yes, you are sorry.

Disgruntled Customer
July 3, 2011

It's too late, I've canceled my paid subscription. You cannot legally grant yourself a license to do anything with my copyrighted data. You hosed yourself. Title 17 of Copyright code doesn't allow you do create such Orwellian terms.

Guest
July 3, 2011

The great work by folks at failblog.org have indelibly changed the word “fail” to be used today as a noun.  The english language grows and changes with culture.  Just because your on the internet doesn't mean your paying attention to anything other than Pr0n and what you consider poor use of language.

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Gosh, another one without 1/2 a brain.

Read my long comment below, but while you are doing so,
repeat this mantra:

“to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.”

Wish they numbered comments, as it is sometimes hard to find something amongst the many posts.  Search for “Dropbox's biggest problem seems to be overestimating the intelligence of their users.”

Olivier Boss
July 3, 2011

I like Dropbox a lot. It works well for me. But please come up with a solution for us to be able to select the folders on our devices we want to sync (with Dropbox and our other devices).
I am only waiting for this feature (that is absolutely necessary for me) to upgrade to a paying plan offering more space on Dropbox.

Simon Garlick
July 3, 2011

a) galantesoftware.com is registered to Galante Software of Lancaster NY

b) wtf?

pey
July 3, 2011

My beef is not with the TOS, but what looks like DB is doing is getting away from their simple source2target sync service and want to force other service layers down our throat. I know how to open my files on the target box!! I better not be given options to convert or translate my content. I simply want to sync my files. Not to convert a gif to jpg in the process.

You are not google or facebook.. Leave it alone!!

puhsitch
July 3, 2011

…and as the dust settles, it appears that the ratio of rational to irrational Dropbox users has increased rather significantly.

S Dugan
July 3, 2011

Even trying to make this simple they fail at explaining themselves…  Let me try.
Look we have heard that possession is 9/10th of the law.  So the legal question here is what happens when you send your personal data to a third party, regardless if its Dropbox, google docs or any other mystical cloud service?  The fact is that they have a copy of your data on their servers.  Its in their possession, at their facilitates, ON THEIR STORAGE DEVICES, because you put it there.  Just because its in their possession DOESN'T mean that they own the data.  They are providing a service to hold if for you.  
Now the question is WHAT can they do with it now that it is in their possession?  Without the above ToS…nothing!  
You have to give them rights (very limit rights) to do anything with your possessions.  For instance, if you want to copy YOUR DATA back to yourself they need to initiate a copy process.  A copy process on something they do not own.  Without giving them the limited right to allow them to make a copy of your data (only at your request) they would be legally in violation of the copyright laws.

Tommy Crosby
July 3, 2011

I like the way you have updated this post.
Reading about the license we grant you is very scary by itself. It's nice to precise that you need to request this licence to legally offer us the service. This is a legal part that us, users, don't think about. We mostly only think about us and our file security that we forget your security.

Jdjomail
July 3, 2011

I continue to trust you but please do not “play” with words and clarify simply what you want to say.
I try to promote your service to my IT team but really, with such a confusion, you do not help.

Change your layer and take back the control on your communication !

Edwin Watkeys
July 3, 2011

Don't paint me a some sort of fussbudget with his head in the sand with respect to the evolution of the English language; it's not going to work. I think “meh,” for example, is one of the best new words to be added to the language in decades. I'm saying something entirely different, namely that people who use “fail” as a noun are insecure try-hards with poor taste and defective senses of style. (Oh, and they tend to think that writing HTML or CSS — or copying and pasting a line or two of jQuery-fortified JavaScript — count as programming.)

I can tell you're pretty advanced — in the true Chuck Klosterman sense — from your brave attempts to redefine “your” to mean “you're” as well as your efforts to start a typewriter style revival with your use of two spaces after a full stop. And then there's your efforts to import German's convention of not capitalizing the name of the language. You're a linguistic army onto yourself, a force to be reckoned with. I don't have the courage to push the envelope of English usage as far as you. After all, I have my hands full shuffling around behind my walker.

William Carleton
July 3, 2011

Nice work, Drew and Arash. The update and clarificatins, I mean.

Pmtuts
July 3, 2011

To the people complaing about the rights issue in the TOS: If a company who provides a distribution, sharing or backup service, doesn't have this in their TOS. Then you are technically and legally not allowed or able to upload data to their service. Even the makers of this comment system have to ask you the right to share your comments with others. If you don't agree with this then you really need to take a second look at the TOS from other service providers you use. I bet you'll see that you need to close your account with more then 50% of them.

If you don't understand the TOS or need more clarification then you can write your own TOU (terms of use of your data) store it with your files and send a copy to DropBox. Ask them to delete your account if your TOU are in conflict with their TOS. DropBox stated clearly above that you own you data so you are legally allowed to have a TOU for you data that DropBox has to comply to. If you had this in place you were maybe even in the position to sue them for the 4 hour data breach.

ChuckB
July 3, 2011

They “look incompatible”? Sorry, but this nonsense …

Mike Mathias
July 3, 2011

Cool!

Red
July 3, 2011

I look for this kind of fine print.  I do not use Amazon's Cloud Drive because of it.  As it exists, even in its modified form, I cannot agree to these terms.  The terms themselves state: “You must ensure you have the rights you need to grant us that permission.”  I do not have those rights.

milkyway
July 3, 2011

thanx

Voice of Reason
July 3, 2011

John, I agree with your legal interpretation, and it IS smart drafting.

However, I also see no problems for the ToS to be crafted to support the CURRENT version of the service, and for DB to canvass users again at a later date and seek new permissions from us if there are significant changes to the service.  There is no 'need' to craft ToS to cover all future potentialities…

Michael Obst
July 3, 2011

This already works with the current version of dropbox. I have been using it for more than six months and it works wonderfully well. You get to click just the folders and/ore files you want to sync. In fact, I sync some stuff to one laptop and other stuff to another desktop. I did it for space reasons on my old notebook rather than for the money. Just install the latest version and you will be guided easily to the choice of which files to sync and which should stay in the cloud or on your notebook; either way.

JM Pedrera
July 3, 2011

It has sense and it look likes very profesional.

Gary Garcia
July 3, 2011

If you have problems with the service dropbox is providing or you don't like the service, don't make use of the service. Thanks Drew & Arash for Dropbox.

Ryan
July 3, 2011

It already exists! It's called selective sync!

Connor Aston
July 3, 2011

Let me see  . . . dropbox is brilliant we all know it. 100 GIG account using 63% at present $200 a year, absolute bargain. I must really study in depth the TOS . . .  ZZZzzzzz sorry im sleeping now. USE it and enjoy. Go outside for a walk in the sunshine while NOT reading TOS's

Duc Nguyen
July 3, 2011

great work, thanks a lot

Riverside99
July 3, 2011

keep up the good work ,many thanks I realy like dropbox and recommend it to friends .I used 2 back up my work on a flash drive to take home and at times things went wrong ,now I use dropbox and have never had a problem ,its great ,so thanks again .

Christophe Drean
July 3, 2011

Thanks for informing…

Agi
July 3, 2011

The best ;)

Steve H
July 3, 2011

Talking about poor use of language, just because the English (as opposed to english) language changes continuously, doesn't make it an excuse for slovenly writing. Case in point: your use of the word 'your' when you actually mean “you”re”!!

Kj Lightbody
July 3, 2011

Great no problem with that

Michael
July 3, 2011

Thanks, do the right thing and we will stick with you.

SiGM
July 3, 2011

Tanks

Eiji Onizuka
July 3, 2011

Keep up the good work. Thanks.

英司 小幡
July 3, 2011

Thank you!

英司 小幡
July 3, 2011

Thank you.

Alex Marugan
July 3, 2011

Thanks

Catohansen
July 3, 2011

Thanks

Stuart
July 3, 2011

Or “you”re” when you mean “you're”. Inverted commas may not be used as an Apostrophe, Einstein.

Federico Mantero
July 3, 2011

Great, thank you|

Paul
July 3, 2011

All sounds good.  Keep up the the good work Yea Dropbox for ever…..

Paul Crick-Lyon
July 3, 2011

Good work Long live DropBox.  Yeah!!!!

Paul Crick-Lyon
July 3, 2011

Good work. Long live DropBox.   Yeah!

Bernard
July 3, 2011

Thanks for informing.

Bao Luo
July 3, 2011

I like the concept of “cloud” computing to the extent that my next computer will be a Chromebook and I'll try to go completely cloud with the use of Dropbox and ZohoMail.
I'm very organized with my filing system, folders with folders within folders and over time as I get to play with Dropbox more I feel I'll be able to gradually make the switch. Though I'll spend more time experimenting first.

SuumQuique
July 3, 2011

Many thanks for dropbox!

Drdavin
July 3, 2011

Thanks 4 better service

Gipegiop
July 3, 2011

Good work. Long live DropBox!

Chris Beale
July 3, 2011

So what's this all about?
 'By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it necessary for the Service.'

RS
July 3, 2011

Good job! Finally a TOS that I can read

Degsy
July 3, 2011

TThe concept of cloud has so changed my limited computing capabilities.
Life has become so simple. Well done dropbox.

Gość
July 3, 2011

WTF? Account deleted, Android client uninstalled, Linux client removed. Have a nice day.

“We sometimes need your permission to do what you ask us to do with your stuff (for example, hosting, making public, or sharing your files). By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service. This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display, and operate the Services. You must ensure you have the rights you need to grant us that permission”.

potential user
July 3, 2011

I'll never  grant you rights to MY files!

Sergei Dolgov
July 3, 2011

I'm afraid the Dropbox will be easy not only for ernest users.
Sergei Dolgov

Macka
July 3, 2011

Derivative works could imply the way the files are stored eg a base file with a list of changes, it could imply that the site is able to do something like display a document in an HTML format, like GMail and indeed Google does (Google search can display PDFs as HTML pages).

If you share a public link or an album through the pictures folder, that would be public distribution, and the album may be considered a derivative work.

What they are aiming to do is cover their arses should some moron decide that a function of DB or its website is somehow violating their copyright/IP.

JoaoLuis
July 3, 2011

Way better guys – good work – DROPBOX ROCKS :)

Riccardo Pareschi
July 3, 2011

Freedom is what the others let you do. Thanks for you job.

Macka
July 3, 2011

What it means is they are allowed to copy files you have stored with them onto your own computer!

If you place a file there and you haven't granted them the rights to the above then they can not legally transmit your own file to your own computer/device.

Joseph F. Towns, III
July 3, 2011

I'm a linguist, and I admire your brave attempt to decode “legalese”! Some readers will obviously laud and support your efforts; other readers will either be confused, or will mock your efforts, and no matter what you do, they will bring rain on your parade. For me, I don't know what I'd do without Dropbox.  Genuine thanks for a brilliant service,  Joseph F Towns, III

Phf1
July 3, 2011

thank you for making it easier to understand a very reliable service

Sara Cosemans
July 3, 2011

I read it and totally agree. And this is one of the first times I don't have to lie about it! Thank you for the clear information :)

Sara
July 3, 2011

thanks!

Colin
July 3, 2011

Great service, More than happy with Dropbox thank you very much.

Macka
July 3, 2011

This TOS is clear and straight forward, I will continue to use  Dropbox and when I graduate and get my first job, I will definitely consider paying for additional space.

Silvana
July 3, 2011

is it possible to have iyalian translation Thank You
Silvana

Ali
July 3, 2011

outstanding service…head off for your creative team!!!

- Ali

Brandon
July 3, 2011

It's unfortunate that people take the wording of the ToS and run with it to make you out to be  the bad guys. The problem is that people keep thinking that the above ToS means that you have the rights to do whatever you want with the data, when, in fact, that's not the case. 

The “worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff” part always scares people away. 

What they need to read is the “to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service. This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display, and operate the Services.” In other words, the only rights you have are the ones given by the users, and you can't do anything with the data that would be unreasonable or unnecessary. 

A comment below summed it up best:

“Dropbox's biggest problem seems to be overestimating the intelligence of their users.”

Brandon
July 3, 2011

Your loss. You're losing out because you can't interpret the ToS correctly. It sounds like it grants them a lot of rights, but it actually doesn't. Sounds like it's too late for you, though.

@desc
July 3, 2011

Thank you for making a blog post overview for this.

PaulG
July 3, 2011

Sounds pretty good to me. An Off ocation storage site is a great benefit to me for security of important day-to-day operating data.

Thanks for your efforts on our behalf.
Paul G

Macka
July 3, 2011

“We sometimes need your permission to do what you ask us to do with your
stuff (for example, hosting, making public, or sharing your files)”

To transfer a file from your Linux box to your Android device they must have permission to copy and distribute your files.

If they provide a service that allows you to view a Word document, PDF or other file as an html file (similar to what GMail does), then they are making a derivative work. If, as I suspect they do, they break up your files and only transmit and store changes you make to the files rather than the entire file, they are also making a derivative. To make such a derivative they need your permission as YOU still OWN THE FILE.

Lastly, “This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display, and operate the Services.”

Kevintomli
July 3, 2011

Just deleted important stuff. Since i'm a programmer, i don't want you to be allowed in using my hard work :) I guess i'll continue using DropBox for the junk.

Macka
July 3, 2011

If you're a programmer you should be able to understand the ToS properly:

“We sometimes need your permission to do what you ask us to do with your
stuff (for example, hosting, making public, or sharing your files)”

To transfer a file from one of your devices (computer/phone) to another of your devices they must have permission to copy and distribute your files.

If
they provide a service that allows you to view a Word document, PDF or
other file as an html file (similar to what GMail does), then they are
making a derivative work. If, as I suspect they do, they break up your
files and only transmit and store changes you make to the files rather
than the entire file, they are also making a derivative. To make such a
derivative they need your permission as YOU still OWN THE FILE.

If you choose to share a file through a public link, through a public folder then they need permission to do so.

Lastly, “This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display, and operate the Services.”

I trust DB with my source code, my ideas and my work, they have never given me a reason not to.

Onclejon
July 3, 2011

Useful clarification

Luke
July 3, 2011

I don't see how the new clarification could be misunderstood by anyone other than a complete idiot. It's probably best these people aren't using the service anymore.

Nik
July 3, 2011

Absolutely, me too. Just the fact that they tried to slip the initial wording by us and then scrambled to change it shows that there are $$ signs in their eyes. Bad move. The fact is that the wording is still a nightmare for anyone who has the rights to intellectual property.

Barry
July 3, 2011

Drew & Arash, thanks for the renewed attempt at transparency. The language of the Google TOS paragraph 11.1 is far clearer IMO, you should restructure the problematic area of your own with reference to that model.  Some people don't like the work subliscene in you r text, I think you should elucidate better what that means.   Otherwise what I want, more than anything, is assurance, in clear English, legalize or otjerwise, whether Dropbox has the right to make any money off, or get any IP right leverage from the CONTENT in my files, by reselling it to third parties.   I realise the notion of content is a complex issue when you need to treat files as data and distribute them over a network, but phrasing suchas the following (also apadted from a Google TOS would go a long way to assuaging doubts and fears:

“Your Intellectual Property Rights. Dropbox does not claim any ownership in any of the content, including any text, data, information, images, photographs, music, sound, video, or other material, that you upload, transmit or store in your Dropbox. We will not use any of your content for any purpose except to provide you with the Service.”

Nik
July 3, 2011

You mean the way they drafted it the first time? Or the second time? Or the third time?

I've read a few of your posts here and you're clearly an apologist for DB, most likely an employee trying to appear to be a somewhat snotty internet troll/DB fan with the ability to compose a proper sentence. I'm a huge fan of DB but the fact is that this TOS is a nightmare for anyone who holds the rights to revenue-generating intellectual property, and is just generally bad for anyone who wants to secure their data.

What's strangest to me is that DB failed to recognize that right now, a huge number of people are waking up to the fact that their data on the 'net is not secure. How many headlines have we seen in the past 12 months?

Undo
July 3, 2011

Yes “solely” as in “is only”, but a “purpose” of an action is always subjective, they can sublicense my stuff and find thousands of way to say it was “solely” to administer the system… This sentence just seems like a copy/paste from the **cking Facebook terms of use. I don't have a FB account, I won't have a dropbox account anymore if these statements keep in place. Sugarsync does not have any GNU/Linux implementation but I will use it and leave Dropbox if I am forced to.

S. Piren
July 3, 2011

Great stuff. Dropbox is sure one of the best Internet Apps of the past few years.

Tamraestouffer
July 3, 2011

I love Drobox. I would recommend it to anyone. Thanks for the explanation, and the way you worded it, for most people to understand. Keep up the great work. Have a blessed day. Tammy

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Does selective sync work on folders that are outside of the DropBox folder?  I didn't think so, but maybe that has changed.

Muhemeed
July 3, 2011

It work out good Drobox. I would recommend it to anyone.

Best regarde.

pbean
July 3, 2011

To be honest I don't understand so many of the comments here (and I've read quite a few). Dropbox has taken the time and effort to actually improve the readability of their legal documents, they haven't actually really changed the actual policies behind them. Also, the documents are more clear now and you can easily interpret them.

How anyone can ever see this as something negative is completely beyond me. I don't want to call these people idiots, but it does seem to me that they haven't actually read anything from the blog post nor the documents.

Everything written in the blog post is an improvement to the previous situation, and nothing will actually change. Your files are actually safe with Dropbox, and they're not going to distribute them to others or anything. In fact, they've been trying hard to clarify their legal documents to reflect this! They must have permissions to re-distribute your own files to yourself, to your other computers and your mobile device, but that doesn't mean giving your files to other people. That's the bit they're trying to clarify.

In any case, if you stop using Dropbox because of this, it means only that you're either too lazy or too stupid to actually read what's been posted, or to interpret the newly clarified legal documents. It's really only your own loss if you stupid using this great service!!

Cojoh
July 3, 2011

I must admit that this is confusing for a non-native English speaker, so thanks for your clarifications. However, isn't there one more thing in it? I read that Dropbox not only wants to confirm that the Dropbox user owns the right of his data but that they DEMAND that you make sure that you have all copyrights for the files you have stored. Why is that important?

Imagine you are downloading a copyrighted file (picture, song etc) to a dropbox account just for your private use, probably temporarily because you are testing a new drawing or sound management program, whatever. Suddenly you get contacted by the copyright owner who sues you because you have misused IP rights. Dropbox would then be able to refer to their TOS where the user confirms that he has all copyright of all his files. As you didn't have these Dropbox had the duty to inform the holder of the IP rights.

And if you take into account that Sony as one of the largest copyright owners in the music industry has become an alliance partner of Dropbox there could be a special purpose in changing the TOS, couldn't there? E.g. hunting down all people on Dropbox that are using unlicensed copies of music tracks…

I hope that this is just a phantasy and that someone who is better in reading the TOS can come across with good arguments against my scenario.

Jurgen
July 3, 2011

Hi Kevin,

actually the solution for your problem is in this posting: use something like TrueCrypt. Obviously, you'll loose a few features (which require for them to have the right you don't want to grant) but you still have an off-site backup and something you can access from on different locations.

If I understand Truecrypt and dropbox correctly, both encrypt/transmit using a delta-procedure. In Truecrypt, if you change a 50k file, only something like 64k of your encrypted container changes… and dropbox will only sync these 64k. So not the whole 1Gig file will go over the interwebs every time again.

If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Anoop Mohan
July 3, 2011

what ever its is about encryption, its just a personal need of users, if people are worried about their privacy, let the encrypt it and upload, dropbox is doing a great job, i love its simplicity with hidden complexity

Perry
July 3, 2011

I love Dropbox. It allows me to communicate with my office in chilly London and my V/A's around S/E Asia while I 'work hard' from my Bangkok condo or a hammock on Koh Chang.
Dropbox helped me realize my dream Internet lifestyle!! 
Good work fellas and a happy 4th for tomorrow!

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Nik, you ramble.  First, I'm not a DB employee.  In fact, I'm not even a paying customer.  I'm still trying to ensure that their product will meet my needs.  Until then, I'll stay below 2g to test.

For you to say that the TOS is a nightmare for those with revenue generating IP means that you just don't understand what is written in the TOS.  If you don't like my <abrasive> style, others have said the same thing more recently.

BTW, I share your concern about security and DB has a long way to go to lock down the data, unfortunately.  If you read the security paper (there is a link below that leads to a pdf download) it really demonstrates how insecure, in theory, the data really is.  However, I am a big believer in obfuscatory security for most things because, quite frankly, most of us don't store stuff that would be all that valuable to a typical hacker.  And good obfuscation is plenty secure for casual security (heresy, I know, but that is how I feel).

Some people do store really important stuff, though, and those folks should be concerned with *all* of the cloud services, not just DropBox.

I've seen discussions on the DropBox forum that basically end with DB making it clear that their primary objective is ease of use and while they profess to take security seriously, they aren't willing to institute things like verification of identity when DB Session ID's are changed (as would happen if I used a memory stick installation on first one, then a second computer at a different location). Read the pdf.  It really is scary.

In no way can I be described as a DB apologist.  However, I think their TOS are just fine.</abrasive>

Myatu
July 3, 2011

Suggestion: You need to reduce your long sentences. You've got one in there that spans nearly the entire paragraph. When someone who doesn't read English (very well) makes an attempt at understanding them, this will make it difficult.

It'd also help if you provide your own official translation. Click on the “Espanol” or “Francais” at the bottom of the ToS, and it'll still be in English. This will avoid such nonsense as “But, XYZ Translator translated this is as 'Yes, you can.'”.

Cliff Stanford
July 3, 2011

“to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service”Two points.  1) “Service” is not defined.  You probably mean “Services”.  2) If you changed this again to make it clear that that it is “to provide the Services to you” it would be acceptable, though I still fail to understand why you need translation rights.

Myatu
July 3, 2011

but that they DEMAND that you make sure that you have all copyrights for the files you have stored. Why is that important?

It says:

You must ensure you have the rights you need to grant us that permission.

It doesn't mean you have to own the copyright, but simply the rights to do the things that you want DropBox to do with these files.

These rights that you have over a particular file varies. For example, one might say that you are allowed to keep one private backup of their OS. That means you cannot tell DropBox to make said backup stored on their service “Public” as you don't have the rights to grant DropBox that permission (the actual copyright owner told you not to).

Christoph Haug
July 3, 2011

I appreciate your efforts and I can see why you might be annoyed with some users who don't even seem to understand the intention of those changes. But I'm also annoyed by those users who like to believe that there are no problems and turn legal issues into a “dropbox are the good guys” thing. Even good guys make contracts with each other. What I'd like to understand is what you (the dropbox team) were thinking, when you kind of left those unclarities (not only in the TOCs but also on your website) which all happen to be to your advantage (i.e. make users put more trust in the service than was actually justified).

P.S. Funny that in order to post this comment, I have to accept a security certificate from a non-trusted issuer…

What I would like to point out regarding the nred for those permissions is that, in my opinion, dropbox does not need those permissions to do things with my stuff (at least not for all things) because it is not them doing those things, it is me as a user pressing the button on a machine to do things. Dropbox built the machine and maintains it, yes, but I'm the one doing things. The agency is on my side.

So even if there are some things that dropbox needs to do with my stuff while I'm asleep, I am missing that distinction between granting the right to do things that I explicitly initiate and granting the right to do things that are initiated by other people (e.g. dropbox themselves, because they want to save space on their servers, or state representatives, who might claim that my dropbox serves criminal purposes, or whatever, and demand access to it). Why do you need those general permissions rather than explaining which activities on my side imply that I grant dropbox the right to do this and that. So, for example, if I never share any pictures publicly then dropbox does not need the right to make thumbnails of them. Or whatever.

J Camus3
July 3, 2011

It work often with Drobox. I would recommend it to anyone.

Regards

Jacmtl
July 3, 2011

You have a very good product. It is simple and it works. Don't screw it up!

Paul W
July 3, 2011

I love Dropbox and recommend it to just about everyone. However this paragraph makes me think about a full 180 degree turn and look to alternatives. As a photographer who delivers work to clients via Dropbox this sends a shiver down my spine. This need immediate change or lose users by the 1000's.

“We sometimes need your permission to do what you ask us to do with your
stuff (for example, hosting, making public, or sharing your files). By
submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work
with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free,
sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works
(such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly
display that stuff to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.
This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display,
and operate the Services. You must ensure you have the rights you need
to grant us that permission”.

Regards

Josmeulman
July 3, 2011

How can you make a good prog better?????????
I Like dropbox.

Daniel
July 3, 2011

Hi Paul!

As far as I understand this, they need this permission cause otherwise they would run into great problems if they just do their usual work. It's the copyright law that sucks. As an example: If you put a picture in your dropbox and view it online, they have to create a thumbnail for you and therefor they need the license to do so. The copyright law requires them to ask, otherwise people could sue them just for creating thumbnails.
I know that sounds strange, but copyright law is absolutely fu**ed up. Sorry for the words.

greetings, Daniel

NoComment
July 3, 2011

'By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it necessary for the Service.'

Dairy12
July 3, 2011

Since yesterday, I have been unable to get my files from my pc to my iPad. What did you do and how can I do to correct this proble

Daniel
July 3, 2011

@Dropbox:twitter  You should explain in simple words why you need the licensing. Give examples and clearly set limits what it is for and what it's NOT for. Explain it in plain english so everybody gets it and include examples!
greetings, Daniel

Bjarne Gottfred Moldeklev
July 3, 2011

If this means – that I have to pay you for having my confidential files, and give you all rights -
I will have to close my account. I have never given you any permission to use or share MY
files, they have a Copyright. I am sorry if I have to quit Dropbox, cause I really liked it.
But thanks for informing me. I hope I can avoid this.

Yours sincerely
Bjarne

Simon D
July 3, 2011

Dropbox is what the Internet is all about, keep up the good work.

Tikinout
July 3, 2011

Well, actually – no. You do grant DB exclusive rights to your material. And if you are making a living out of that material that is indeed a veeeeery risky thing to do. I firmly believe that this is either an insidious attempt from DB to reuse the content or plain lazyness on their part because it would be entirely possible to only grant those needs on a “need to have” basis.

Tbdewet
July 3, 2011

Although it is not a “mainstream” language, Africaans translation availability would be of great importance to me and other genealogist who use data from South Africa.

Dropbox User
July 3, 2011

Anyone who uses Dropbox should also have another back-up of the files, plus the original. One should never rely on the Dropbox as a sole back-up. Any items posted should be considered public and you should NEVER post files that you don't want shown the light of day to any system operated by a third party. Saying all that leaves only one conclusion, some idiot posted something and it was wiped off Dropbox and he/she wants to take it out on Dropbox because of their own stupidity. Dropbox is a great program for everyone who wants to store or share file, may it continue and prosper.

Profejos
July 3, 2011

Ok! Dropbox. Concordo plenamente.

Abraço fraterno, Edilson.

R Scholfield
July 3, 2011

TOS look fine, thank you for the service, it is so useful to us.

Mark W
July 3, 2011

Thanks. I love Drop Box. It transfers files faster without any data loss than any thing out there.

David Garfield
July 3, 2011

I am a little concerned about Dropbox having the right to use my material (especially photographs) unfettered.

It was explained to me a few weeks ago that Facebook have the right to use any photo uploaded to its site without recourse to the account owner. It resulted (I am told) with the face of a young girl appearing on the cover of a porn video. She wasn't in the film, of course, but her father was powerless to have the picture removed. This may be apocryphal,  but I don't expect anyone, and I mean anyone, to be able to use my material. Ever. I would be grateful if Dropbox would clarify what they are legally able to do (not what they think they might do).

Mark W
July 3, 2011

I dont think that was what it meant. I keep proprietary info on my mine.

Carlmadin
July 3, 2011

Yeah, read it again mate. It plainly says “non-exclusive”.

Dave Freer
July 3, 2011

The trouble – quite frankly – is not your use of copyright terms, but your failure to clearly define what those do mean, leaving it up to interepretation as to what they could mean. Here are some suggestions:
1)Just what do you mean by 'translation'? – I have about forty publishing contracts and they have been dealing with copyright for far longer than DB has. 'translation' there means, unequivocally, translating into other human spoken/written languages. These rights are sold, and I could not grant you the right to use them free of royalty, because I don't own them, although I do own the original data-file. I suspect you mean between computer languages and formats.
2) I at no time ever wish you to make public my 'stuff' — does this exclude me from any or all of the permissions you need?
3) 'Derivative' also has a very clear meaning in normal publishing contracts.  A Harry Potter dictionary would be a derivative work. I somehow feel this is NOT what you mean.
4) Define service/ services? 

Why not simply say that you will not sell or make available for free the data entrusted to you without permission?

kamoun
July 3, 2011

I think dropbox is so useful, well conceived and sure, which means internationally used, that I don't understand why you don't pay a translator to allow french users like me (or italian, spanish or japanese) to really understand your mails. thank you for understanding. (and for dropbox)

russhughes
July 3, 2011

Perhaps you should use your own dedicated server, then you wouldn't have to worry about any of this.

kbir
July 3, 2011

I understand the concern you and a number of other people mention, but I wonder how many of the people that are complaining here actually have read the copyright law anywhere near as closely as they have the DB terms, and truly understand all the intricacies and liabilities surrounding DB's services (or any online service for that matter), or any of what the DB team may have already (or in the future) dealt with legally that prompted this.  And I wonder if all the complaints about DB's TOS would more correctly be redirected towards copyright law instead.

I think I can safely say there is only one group of people that actively enjoy sitting around spending time thinking up ways to write/rewrite legal documents – lawyers.  They are the only ones that earn a living doing this.  The rest of us are forced into it.

Alejandro
July 3, 2011

good job. Thak you.

Ryann
July 3, 2011

They have the right to use your material only to the extent “reasonably necessary for the Service. This license is solely to
enable us to technically administer, display, and operate the Services.”

Scaramur
July 3, 2011

Robert – Thanks for a great job with drop box and putting your policies in plan english.

Pierre Maciel
July 3, 2011

I knew that the crash would bring some conceptual crises… Well, im sad to hear all that, i'm with Dropbox for almost 3 years now and i love it since then, have about 30 referred active and happy users, that i dont know what to do, yet. But yeh, My Projects, that I developed, should keep mine… I am one of those who believes Open-Source power, is the only way i think it could works, but i know, DBox by the nature of your service, will be facing some annoying lawyers and property keepers. I DONT Agree with the new TOS, hope it can be better.

Trying to resume:
DBox, the way you are now, is not scalable enough, and with those terms, you are digging your own grave. 

But!!!!! Im still with you DBOX! And please! Find a better path to the mutual happiness! =].

Dizbo39
July 3, 2011

Great job
Makes sense even to me
Mike

Dpessah
July 3, 2011

Dropbox has made my life so much easier.

Wolfgang-leistritz
July 3, 2011

Yes, to wright your customer in his own  language would be verry helpfull.
Greetings
Wolfgang

Rehman
July 3, 2011

Suddenly I feel VERY uneasy about using dropbox (which is an extremely useful too).  There is no way I want my data seen or used by 3rd parties. Seriously thinking of closing my account.

UcanDropSomethingInMyBox
July 3, 2011

Dropbox is sexy :)

Nick
July 3, 2011

Thanks for toning down the new TOS. I still think you should modify it further, to state that “publicly display” only applies to files that are put in the public folder.

Kieran Donnelly
July 3, 2011

Dropbox is absolutely the best free application I use. If you need to make sure you are protecting yourself from legal issues or complication permission requests, go for it. We are all enjoying a free lunch after all!

Keep up the great work, and thanks for letting us know the changes in easy to read English.Kieran DonnellyMD at F8 IT Solutions Limited in Aylesbury Bucks, UK http://www.f8-it.com

S. Banerjee
July 3, 2011

Very Fine Job. I find Dropbox very useful.

The questions of its assured security for our classified customers , prevent my colleagues to adopt it in my company.

Flitbee
July 3, 2011

Sorry dropbox but your clarification doesn't make anything clearer. You just turned legalese into long sentences that veil the true legalese. Any normal person would ask what this “Service” is? What is it? Without clarity I am hesitant to use dropbox. You lost another user. Bbye.

P. k.
July 3, 2011

definitely agree…

H2okayak
July 3, 2011

Drew and Arash
If you want to simplify things do not call your document TOS.  Call it terms of service.  How hard is that?

Andy T
July 3, 2011

Great service. Thank you :)

Carole
July 3, 2011

it's great to work with dropbox, especially when you're often away on business and cause it's very easily to use. but anyhow, like the next comment said.. at all time you should have another back up, cause you never know. anyhow, thanks for your work dropbox team and that you translated your terms in an easier english. than honestly it is anyway not possible to understand the whole complexity of the internet, even not in my mother tongue, but at least I understand the words although not the causal relationship . so I can't trust, but I really hope that it works cause it makes my work easier and also I hope there won't be any abuse with the files we all storage on dropbox.

greetings, carole

Francisco Ofn
July 3, 2011

I shad never read the DB-TOS before. But, now that I have received the e-mail, I took the time.
If as an internet user I always had the doubt regarding how others may use my stuff, now I realise this is getting worse because now openly saying that you're free to do whatever you want with our stuff.
I thought DB expected to earn money by selling “server”  services, not stealling “stuff” from users.
As many other people, I'm thinking about closing my account, looking for other similar services, altough closing my “free” account won't bother your finances.

John
July 3, 2011

I emailed you yesterday having updated my account information and everything should be current although it appears as though it didn't get accepted from your end.  I queried this and have not heard from you in reply.  Just about these updates.

Pauledaley
July 3, 2011

Thanks 4 the up-date info, all with due understanding, nice one …

Bob
July 3, 2011

Thanks for providing such a terrific service for us. And thanks for your efforts to try to simplify the TOS…good job. Keep at it. DB sure helps make things easier!

finux
July 3, 2011

I think the timing alone shows this was well thought out and strategic.  I mean changing them on a Friday and not a Monday, when people would have been on hand maybe written down to naivety, but trying to ship it out an American holiday on top of that.  Just a little too convenient.  I also notice they made no mention of it in their lovely email.

Thought they'd gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for them pesky tweeters

Shame on you guys, probably better you just say sorry than trying to justify what you've done.  Worth remembering you do a good job, and someone will tell 10 people.  You do a bad job and they'll tell a 100.

Mari Miniatt
July 3, 2011

This is where you are losing me (as a customer if it does not change)
“By using our Services you may give us access to your information, files,
and folders (together, “your stuff”). You retain ownership to your
stuff. You are also solely responsible for your conduct, the content of
your files and folders, and your communications with others while using
the Services.”

Then you state:
” By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we
work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive,
royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare
derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of,
perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent reasonably
necessary for the Service.”

I do not grant you rights to my novels which I use your service for. If you want the right to use them,

You contradict yourself in the  space of two paragraphs.  You acknowledge we own the stuff, but then you make it sound like we can use what ever you have on our server any way we see fit?  No that doesn't work.

Yoong Juan
July 3, 2011

I think Dropbox provides a wonderful service . Thank you.

Bqamarpak
July 3, 2011

Is it possible to know the number of times a Public Link has been accessed.

Henrik S Nielsen
July 3, 2011

Compliance with Laws and Law Enforcement

As set forth in our privacy policy, and in compliance with United States law, Dropbox cooperates with United States law enforcement when it receives valid legal process, which may require Dropbox to provide the contents of your private Dropbox. In these cases, Dropbox will remove Dropbox’s encryption from the files before providing them to law enforcement.

 - also known as USA PATRIOT act, Title X (something about terrorism. etc.) – please also write that in your “Security Overview” and make a link to an official website stating the amended act.

Asdf
July 3, 2011

You guys are using the word 'stuff' in a legal document. This is so incredibly ambiguous it's creeping me out enough to reconsider using DropBox. I'll keep using it anyway, because I know the alternatives are probably just as good/bad (depending on your baseline). But it still feels creepy.

Dan C
July 3, 2011

Drew, Arash, et al – kudos.  Good docs.  I hope ya'all have teflon vests and IV jack daniels, or something.  Rock &a hard place.  I think if you expanded the three docs to the point that they filled a station wagon, people would still grumble.  Not sure how they think you could run the service legally without the licensing.  lol

FlashGun
July 3, 2011

Thanks for letting us know, and I appreciate the effort made to make everything readable. Just a shame that the Americans think that the entire world celebrates their holidays…

Steve
July 3, 2011

Quite right. That's what comes from typing in bed on an iPad! Thank God it was a typo and not ignorance of the English language.

Richardkellyphoto
July 3, 2011

“By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we
work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive,
royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare
derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of,
perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent reasonably
necessary for the Service. This license is solely to enable us to
technically administer, display, and operate the Services. You must
ensure you have the rights you need to grant us that permission.”

DropBox is a wonderful service, I use it with confidence. It surprises me that so many intelligent users are worried about the Terms of Service. The legal language that is outlined here is what allows DB to provide the service that “we” use. US Copyright law was principally written prior to the internet, servers, cache's,networks, browsers, the cloud, iPad's, iPhones and on and on. The very simple act of opening a file in a browser is a copy, cache a file is a copy, moving a file to multiple servers is copying, this would be infringing your work and DB would need a license (permissions) from you the copyright holder/owner everytime you moved the file, viewed the file etc. Many of these services line DB also use third party companies to do pieces of the service, like hosting, backing up, translating into different format and they need a license from “you” to do that. As users of the digital services, we don't want the time delay to grant permission everytime someone we want to access our files. The Terms of Service is a license to do just that. I see no evidence that DB has any intentions other than to provide quality and efficient service to it's users.

Dan C
July 3, 2011

Mari, that first paragraph simply makes you responsible for the content you put onto the service, so they don't get thrown in jail if you're a pirate or worse.

That second paragraph… If you don't grant them the rights,,, then how do they store (retain a copy of) your files legally?  How do they let you have them from the web interface (publish), when you request them? If you want a shared or public link, how can they make that work (redistribution)?  And if you create a picture gallery, how do they create the thumbnails (derivative work)?

Helen Nerly
July 3, 2011

To be honest, your TOS is one of the most comprehensive out there – I don't know why all of a sudden people are up in arms. I will continue to use your service. Great job, guys.

Mwearl
July 3, 2011

I know that as of right now, DropBox states that it is not HIPAA compliant.  Am I crazy or do I clearly remember that when I researched this last year sometime that there was documentation that said DropBox WAS HIPAA compliant?

Was there a change in the understanding or in the compliance regulation itself, or did I read something somewhere that was incorrect?

Boogy
July 3, 2011

sounds like another country that will be contacting the Americans some day  for help , but right now likes to bash us.

Matthias
July 3, 2011

@russhughes:disqus  and all other people claiming you shouldnt trust the cloud.

This is not helpfull.

DB is not an public service like youtube. Files in DB are always personal. So its obvious that it shouldnt be allowed to use them by dropbox in any way except their storage service. Its simply the same as my email account (where its a good question how e.g. google is handling the copyrihgt part.).

I totaly agree with Dave Freer. “Why not simply say that you will not sell or make available for free the data entrusted to you without permission?”

 

Bqamarpak
July 3, 2011

I am providing a selfless work to a large number of families spread all over the Globe. I have found DropBox a facility, free of cost, to achieve the aim of preserving and disseminating the the valuable family history, I am grateful and appreciative of the assistance being given by DB.
This information becomes more important with the passage of time, I would suggest that the limit of 9 months of non use to discontinue the service should be relaxed.

russhughes
July 3, 2011

Where in my original post does it say OR even infer 'not to trust the cloud'?

I was simply saying that if Dave Freer doesn't like the service Box offer he has a right to set up his own and then he is not reliant on the TOS of the provider.

MartinM
July 3, 2011

So, in order to use DB, someone just has to be willing to give them pretty much unfettered freedom to do whatever they want with the files “to technically administer, display, and operate the Services.” After which of course, retaining “ownership” of them becomes basically meaningless. There's a legal term for that (sorry everybody), it's called “extortion”.

RheeSykler
July 3, 2011

I really like the fact that you people made this so easy for a ” noob ” like me to read , most people don't read anything like this , mostly because of all the ” legal ” part of it as you almost have to be a lawyer or a tech to understand any of it , NICE WORK . Give yourselves a pat on the back and job well done : ) .

russhughes
July 3, 2011

Yawn to all those bleating about their privacy, unless you're storing government secrets or banking records on the cloud, then grow up and realise that no one gives a sh*t about your data – get over yourselves.

You'll find that all cloud services have similar T&Cs that simply to allow them to offer the  kind of service they do.

No one is trying to get you or your data, they have better and bigger things to worry about!

Sbielaw
July 3, 2011

You provide a great service. The terms of service are perfectly clear and I understand the reasons. Thank you!

Ali
July 3, 2011

I dont need all of this, you seem to be trustworthy and thats all I care about ,, mostly

Rajesh Chaudhary
July 3, 2011

Its really worth reading the blog. Please keep posting news and new development in the service. We believe in you, so you should be delivering accordingly. We are glad that we are in the 21st. century and we are getting some awesome services free of cost. thanks for providing this kind of service. Its really a commendable job you guys are doing. Please keep it up. Wish you all the best in your future endeavor.

Bruce Boogie
July 3, 2011

Sounds very fair to me – thanks for making it so clear!

Mariska Brouwer
July 3, 2011

kan het niet in het nederlands. dit is me te ingewikkeld.

David Garfield
July 3, 2011

And that is about as unhelpful as you can get, if not downright childish. Dave Freer may not have the money, inclination or expertise to set up a rival service.

I use Apple's MobileMe service. I don't recall any TOSs from them giving them the right to use any of my material.

John Harris
July 3, 2011

Dropbox is very useful but I'd never store anything on it that I would be upset to find others reading, for the simple reason that your T&C tells me there are circumstances in which you'd let other people read it. I note that, stated or otherwise, whatever thin layer of discretion you provide for American citizens doesn't even apply to other Dropbox users when it comes to access by US government employees and boy there are a lot of those these days, it seems to have become the primary means of employment in the US if you ignore minimum-wage fast-food outlets.

Majiir
July 3, 2011

Really? Do you think they're going to come to your home to get your “stuff”? If you make a hat out of tinfoil it will keep them from reading your mind.

Nena Kabranski
July 3, 2011

My life is generally divided by 2 major parts: before Drop Box, and after Drop Box. I thank you very much for the great, free service! I am sure that you are not going to abuse the customers’ privacy. I will continue to spread the news for the awesome service I receive from you.

Mari Miniatt
July 3, 2011

It is too vague. they can do what you say. But the statement does not stop them from using your files in other ways. 
“…that stuff to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.”
They decide that, not me.
If it is only for the ease and use of the service. it should state that. The way it is now. I wonder if my stuff won't show up on a blurb somewhere.

Majiir
July 3, 2011

You people really do have reading comprehension problems. Now I know why most companies just stick to the thick legalese. Most of you are idiots anyway, may as well keep you uninformed.

russhughes
July 3, 2011

I'm not suggesting he set up a rival service, just that he uses his own server to host files. It takes around an hour to find a host, set-up a public space and put you files there.

So drop your assumptions and the name calling and go read the TOS for MobileMe, which I'm guessing you area about as likely to have read, as I have been to the moon.

"Sir"phil
July 3, 2011

Absolutely right Christoph! This is an open source (free) service, and provided one does not make public any photos,files or folders, then there IS no need to be asked for permissions-by simply using their storage facility surely one has already given DB the rights to store material, but the option for it to be public,or not, is there for us to choose. IF however people wish to make public some of their material, then YES, maybe they must consider alternative storage facilities. It seems clear that DB must protect themselves from possible infringements of any copyright/legal issues, however complex internationally they may be- we all know of the inherent tendency for litigation on the smallest pretext in the USA & elsewhere- maybe here the phrase “Caveat Emptor” applies. This IS open source, it IS free, and it CAN be private too, but IF you make your material public then be aware of the already known risks- surely that is what DB is trying to protect themsleves against here, and therefore our material too. “Sir” Phil

Gfancel17
July 3, 2011

ben je mijn zusje giuseppe fancel

Louise
July 3, 2011

I use dropbox for confidential work files, but have recently been invited and have accepted dropbox for archive family docs.  When I open dropbox – family and work files appear there – does this mean that both parties have access to all files?

Nanyukiborn
July 3, 2011

thanks for the information

Herriot2
July 3, 2011

Why are you thanking yourself?

Thanks, H

Heather Ordover
July 3, 2011

Thank you so much for the hard work you do! It's almost impossible to translate this kind of law speak into muggle speak (for lack of a better term) but you did it. I understand this better than I did before and it just makes me trust y'all even more than I did before (which was, obviously, quite a lot).
Thank you! I wish more places on the Net worked as well as you guys do (they could learn a thing or two…)

Joycegibbons
July 3, 2011

YES…it's admirable to see a company endeavor to strengthen the relationship with its customers.    Keep up with this philosophy -

CR
July 3, 2011

There is definitely a huge split between the 'grateful to have a free service that does exactly what I want' people and the techno paranoids who want to be totally protective of their data. Simple answer to the paranoids – as explained in the documents and the responses in here – DB won't be able to provide you with the service you want/need without certain access rights to the data. If it is so in need of protection, then maybe you should make sure there is only one copy, on your own machine, encrypted, password protected, locked up in a secure room and a group of highly trained security guards giving it 24 hour surveillance. I suspect you would still be uneasy about losing it, and be grumbling that no-one sees your work. Personally, Dropbox works great for me and I certainly won't be moving away. And I like the word 'stuff'.

Rebekah
July 3, 2011

Thanks Dropbox! I'm a nursing student and my academic life rotates across several forums; your service makes my life so much easier, I can't thank you enough for what you do. Keep up the excellent service.

Brian
July 3, 2011

These changes seem reasonable and well considered.  No problem.

Jaaccinelli
July 3, 2011

Thanks Dropbox! I'm so glad with you!

Luis Alberto Roballo
July 3, 2011

Muchas gracias y éxitos en su trabajo

Jason A. Quest
July 3, 2011

It's a crying shame that Dropbox has to rely on it customers to supervise and proofread the work of their legal staff, but this is an improvement.  Now if they would just add one more phrase, we'd have acceptable Terms of Service.

“….extent reasonably necessary for the Service AS DIRECTED BY THE USER. This license is solely…”

Timor
July 3, 2011

you have a fantastic product but the base (free) storage space is too small

"Sir" Phil
July 3, 2011

The comment by CR a few minutes ago pretty much sums it up- we need to remember that nothing is foolproof- e.g. many lovely old paintings and artworks have not been seen for decades by being stored in such stringent security systems that noone, not even the owners, (let alone the artists if they were still alive !), can ever see them again ! Some trust, coupled with precautions and common sense, such as these new definitions from DB, are the way to go. well done DB. there will ALWAYS be grumblers, but provided you ARE listening to legitimate concerns and adapt to them then we are on the same side.

Ralphir54
July 3, 2011

Great product makes sharing much easer 

Trefoil
July 3, 2011

You're right. An empty set is 'merely' a set.

Love Love
July 3, 2011

I LOVE DROPBOX !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dhoang1011
July 3, 2011

Thank you for the clarifications. I LOVE Dropbox but don't have the need for a huge stoare (yet). I am heppy to pay for more storage but don't want to pay for something that I don't need. So, would you consider making a 10 Gig or 25 Gig packages? Thanks for letting me use the free version.

Rfhalvor
July 3, 2011

Drew and Arash,
I have a ltille trouble with photo section as they keep recopying but that can be solved later.
Is your company private or is is public. If private how do I become a small angle or investor. You have a great product.
Roy Halvorsen 800 624 6474

cyberbiker
July 3, 2011

It is unfortunate that the “legalese” can't really say what it means in plain english.  The documents would probably be a lot shorter, more to the point and less scary.  While I find the explanation in update 2 of your 7/2 post somewhat reassuring, it looks as if the legalese that grants preposterously wide license to “mess with my stuff.” 

Quite frankly, the way the “legalese” reads, it looks as though I am giving you the right to use my stuff to make money off of it without any consideration to me for my intellectual property rights, or that I have to give all of my rights up.  If that is not the case, the legalese should so state the proper situation.

The biggest irony in this whole thing is that you (Dropbox) paid some lawyer(s) to write the documents that caused a huge mess and now you will have to pay the same lawyers to fix it.  It seems to me they should be held liable for the misleading 
way in which they prepared their documents.

Why can't EULA's be plain about what they really mean:

By using Dropbox services, I agree to let dropbox do what it needs to to provide for

  Storing my stuff 
  Backing up my stuff
  Encrypting my stuff
  Providing public links so I can share my stuff
  Provide Web Previews or thumbnails for my stuff
  Allowing me to collaborate with others to create my stuff
  Protect my stuff from unauthorized access
  -Insert whatever other services are provided here-

In return, I agree to only access that stuff which I have personally put on Dropbox, or have been given express permission to access. 

I understand that the stuff I put in my public folder may be available to the internet at large, and the consequences of that availability.

I agree not to put any intellectual property on drop box to which I do not have full and legal rights or privileges.   

I agree not to use dropbox for any purpose that violates local, state or federal laws.

Thank you dropbox for developing your product and for responding in such a quick way to what looked initially like a deal killer for me, even though I have enough stuff to need a paid account.

Cyberbiker

Peter Chu
July 3, 2011

Thank you for the great services!

Francisco Ofn
July 3, 2011

WHAT DOES  “you GRANT US (and those we
work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive,
royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to USE, COPY, DISTRIBUTE, prepare
derivative works” TELL YOU THEN?????
ENGLISH IS NOT MY MOTHER LANGUAGE, NEVERTHELESS I UNDERST THAT I HAVE TO LEAVE ALL MY RIGHTS ON MY STUFF SO THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH IT

Daw1
July 3, 2011

Explain again how I've misunderstood this to mean you have rights to use my “stuff” any way you wish, not only according to my own wishes:

By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we
work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive,
royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare
derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of,
perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent reasonably
necessary for the Service.

Jason A. Quest
July 3, 2011

I have never doubted their intentions.  But the new TOS (as first published) was a legal trainwreck that should have been vetted by someone who hadn't worked on writing it, to see if there were problems with it.  For some reason they decided to use their users for that, instead of a professional contract lawyer.  They've fixed the worst mistake in it, but it still needs a little work.

Francisco Ofn
July 3, 2011

YEAH, GREAT DUDE… LET'S DONATE ALL OUR RESEARCH…. LET'S ELIMINATE ALL PATENT DOCUMENTS, NOONE WILL EVER AGAIN BE OWNER OF IT'S OWN STUFF…..
WHY SHOULD I GIVE AWAY MY STUFF…..IT'S NOT ME THE PROBLEM ANYWAY…. IS THE MILLIONS OF USER'S RESEARCH THAT NOW WILL NOT BE THEIR OWN BUT DB ALSO

Mike Mullin
July 3, 2011

So, I have to quit using Dropbox? That's disappointing, I love your service. But I don't own the rights you're trying to claim. Anyone else who is writing material on contract for a publisher is in the same position I'm in. You've created terms of service in which almost anyone who makes their living writing will be forced to drop Dropbox.

Jason A. Quest
July 3, 2011

This response is almost as insightful as “If you don't like [insert something about the country you live in], then move somewhere else.”  Which is to say: it's not.

Mdgmas
July 3, 2011

I love Dropbox but I've some problems with English language . Can be possible to send the new changes in spanish language?, It will be easier to understand for me.

YourTOSsucks
July 3, 2011

You don't need to create derivative works to administer your service.  I think your software is great and recommend it to a great many of my peers.  However your new TOS simply put, means you may take, modify and share my work for unspecified purposes.  This is simply unacceptable.  I like my creator rights and choose not to share it with your company or any other company you work with to provide your services.  Thank you but I think I'll be closing my account and looking for cloud storage elsewhere.

Feel free to use, copy or distribute this message.

Paying Customer
July 3, 2011

What is “reasonably necessary for the service”? Still a big grey area.

Susan
July 3, 2011

I am curious what they mean by “translation” in this phrase:

We sometimes need your permission to do what you ask us to do with your
stuff (for example, hosting, making public, or sharing your files). By
submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work
with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free,
sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works
(such as *translations* or format conversions)

What translation service or product is used when the translation is made? I would like  a comment responding to this.

Robinson Fernandez
July 3, 2011

Excelente programas, ojala no cambien nada. Saludos desde Chile..

Terrigroneman
July 3, 2011

What happens to my stuff if you don't keep up with your license fees? And I saw the info about only saving one image. The reason I use dropbox is because I want to save my all stuff where it can be lost through a system crash or deleted accidently. I would like to share SOME of my stuff with others, and they have the ability to delete that shared stuff. If only one copy of a file is kept there is still the possibility I could lose it.

Anonymous
July 3, 2011

This is absolutely amazing!

In the past 2-3 months Dropbox has gone from a company stating they have NO access to your data whatsoever and that it is encrypted with military grade encryption to this……

And some of you are ok with being completely lied to?

This is a sad day and age when the users are so blind that they cannot see how badly they have been deceived.

If you do not care about your privacy that is fine… but do not expect others to not care.  

By using these TOS they are basically writing themselves out of the business/education/healthcare/research community…. What are they left with?  oh free users who love getting a free space to store some data!  and a few personal paid users who are OK with this.  Go Dropbox!

Bethany
July 3, 2011

I appreciate that the 2nd change appears to limit the rights you're demanding regarding redistribution etc., but it falls apart because you don't define the “Service” anywhere in the TOS, and because you give yourself permission to change the “Service” at any time.

That makes all of the assurances about “reasonably necessary” meaningless.

Contracts 101. If you're going to capitalise a word and therefore give it a specific meaning unique to your contract, you're supposed to define it.

I'll not be closing my account because I don't use it for anything important. But if I did, I would never agree to a TOS like this.

Zing1975
July 3, 2011

Finally! Thank you for clarifying this! I've been scrolling down to make sense of this because why would drop box allow such a great blog when they are trying to so called steal our work! They should hire you for the next round of licence agreement!!!! Thanks again!

Frankyvee
July 3, 2011

As with any Cloud Storage Service always assume that someone can access your files. The only files that are secure are the ones on a drive with no netwok access. Everything that is connected to a network should be assumed that it is viewable by the public. True Crypt is good encyption if you have control of it on your end (client side).  If it is that important then pull the plug.

Chromeronin
July 3, 2011

If this were a real photo, you’d be asking them to take the image on the card, but don’t touch it, or look at it, and don’t put sticking tape to it, or put it behind glass, and don’t copy it or back it up, and please don’t share it, but could you make sure I can get to it from anywhere on the planet and let anyone I want also look at it?
The whole TOS indicates they have the right to do the things that ne to be done to your data to operate Dropbox. If you don’t want them to do this, then use a pogoplug or similar and share it yourself from your own network.
For general personal stuff I use Dropbox, for my clients data I use my own VPN and an FTP/WebDAV server. For a measly NZ$300 you can buy an airport extreme and share a drive from it to the Internet. It’s then up to you to manage and secure it though.
For the free service DB offer, their terms are acceptable to me. I am just mindful of what data I have and where it is.

disappointed
July 3, 2011

Nothing free is good.  Point proven.

JamesE117
July 3, 2011

Thanks for taking the time to explain it all.  Lots of companies don't do that.

Check it out...
July 3, 2011

Read RichardKellyPhoto by scrolling down to have a better understanding.

Zing1975
July 3, 2011

Before freaking out about privacy issues, please scroll down and read RichardKellyPhoto's entry! It clarifies everything.

Kkenk
July 3, 2011

I love dropbox no matter what changes you make. 
So easy to use and so convenient.

                                 Ken Kothe

Aungsanan
July 3, 2011

Thank you for such an excellent dropbox. Nothing is better than this

Masa
July 3, 2011

The need to use “legal-sounding parts” has nothing to do with sublicensing, using, and preparing derivative works. It should be up to the content owner to sublicense, determine who can use, and determine what can be translated or format-changed. I really don't see why DropBox would want to do that without prior consent of the owner. This means DropBox should handle this case-by-case and not as a global agreement for all users.

Section 11 of Google TOS seems to be were you based your Licensing section on. However, Google's makes it clear and DropBox leaves it unclear. Probably the solution to this matter is for DropBox to do as Google did in not leaving fuzzy parts in the licensing.

At the moment I had to remove all the sensitive files I have, such as business contracts I was sharing with my customers, and leave my DropBox folder with only a  few files–about 3% of the content I originally had there. This sees to be the case for many users, based o the comments posted, which means DropBox is losing a noticeable amount of users and content.

Sys Eng
July 3, 2011

I don't remember anywhere reading in the HIPAA law, Public Law 104-109, about services like Dropbox being compliant or non-compliant. HIPAA doesn't say anything about like what router you're supposed to use or what encryption you're supposed to use. I suggest reading the law yourself. All HIPAA requires is that holders of patient information take a “reasonable” precaution in safeguarding the information they hold, and it even specifically states that the holder of that information only has to implement resources that are within it's own reasonable financial means. That's very subjective.
Dropbox probably only makes that statement so that some careless person doesn't try to blame them for a breach of confidentiality.

Scott F.
July 3, 2011

>>>>It is unfortunate that the “legalese” can't really say what it means in plain english.  The documents would probably be a lot shorter, more to the point and less scary.  While I find the explanation in update 2 of your 7/2 post somewhat reassuring, it looks as if the legalese that grants preposterously wide license to “mess with my stuff.” 

Quite frankly, the way the “legalese” reads, it looks as though I am giving you the right to use my stuff to make money off of it without any consideration to me for my intellectual property rights, or that I have to give all of my rights up.  If that is not the case, the legalese should so state the proper situation.

The biggest irony in this whole thing is that you (Dropbox) paid some lawyer(s) to write the documents that caused a huge mess and now you will have to pay the same lawyers to fix it.  It seems to me they should be held liable for the misleading 
way in which they prepared their documents.

Why can't EULA's be plain about what they really mean:

By using Dropbox services, I agree to let dropbox do what it needs to to provide for

  Storing my stuff 
  Backing up my stuff
  Encrypting my stuff
  Providing public links so I can share my stuff
  Provide Web Previews or thumbnails for my stuff
  Allowing me to collaborate with others to create my stuff
  Protect my stuff from unauthorized access
  -Insert whatever other services are provided here-

In return, I agree to only access that stuff which I have personally put on Dropbox, or have been given express permission to access. 

I understand that the stuff I put in my public folder may be available to the internet at large, and the consequences of that availability.

I agree not to put any intellectual property on drop box to which I do not have full and legal rights or privileges.   

I agree not to use dropbox for any purpose that violates local, state or federal laws.

Thank you dropbox for developing your product and for responding in such a quick way to what looked initially like a deal killer for me, even though I have enough stuff to need a paid account. <<<<<

This is clever you all need to read this.

Scott B.
July 3, 2011

>>>It is unfortunate that the “legalese” can't really say what it means in plain english.  The documents would probably be a lot shorter, more to the point and less scary.  While I find the explanation in update 2 of your 7/2 post somewhat reassuring, it looks as if the legalese that grants preposterously wide license to “mess with my stuff.” 

Quite frankly, the way the “legalese” reads, it looks as though I am giving you the right to use my stuff to make money off of it without any consideration to me for my intellectual property rights, or that I have to give all of my rights up.  If that is not the case, the legalese should so state the proper situation.

The biggest irony in this whole thing is that you (Dropbox) paid some lawyer(s) to write the documents that caused a huge mess and now you will have to pay the same lawyers to fix it.  It seems to me they should be held liable for the misleading 
way in which they prepared their documents.

Why can't EULA's be plain about what they really mean:

By using Dropbox services, I agree to let dropbox do what it needs to to provide for

  Storing my stuff 
  Backing up my stuff
  Encrypting my stuff
  Providing public links so I can share my stuff
  Provide Web Previews or thumbnails for my stuff
  Allowing me to collaborate with others to create my stuff
  Protect my stuff from unauthorized access
  -Insert whatever other services are provided here-

In return, I agree to only access that stuff which I have personally put on Dropbox, or have been given express permission to access. 

I understand that the stuff I put in my public folder may be available to the internet at large, and the consequences of that availability.

I agree not to put any intellectual property on drop box to which I do not have full and legal rights or privileges.   

I agree not to use dropbox for any purpose that violates local, state or federal laws.

Thank you dropbox for developing your product and for responding in such a quick way to what looked initially like a deal killer for me, even though I have enough stuff to need a paid account. <<<<<

This is clever you all need to read this.

ProfBEEVANS
July 3, 2011

Drew & Arash,
I concur, Thanks for the update.
ProfBEEVANS

Draker
July 3, 2011

YOUR STUFF CAN BE SOLD O TAKEN BY DB….. CAREFUL

Navarroroberto
July 3, 2011

Thanks for your good service

Giuggia17
July 3, 2011

ok,i agree!

Rob Smith
July 3, 2011

It seems like while trying to obtain rights necessary for running the service, you are actually giving yourself carte blanche to do anything “you deem necessary…” which means pretty much everything. Why not enumerate cases where/when you require the license.

BridgetH
July 3, 2011

No, you have to give them the rights to do what YOU want them to do with it.

Sidney Falco
July 3, 2011

Didn't you bother to read on?

“to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service. This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display, and operate the Services”

Raju4u44
July 3, 2011

i agree,Thanks for your good service.

Pablo Cuevas
July 3, 2011

I find these notes very clear and helpful in understanding matters about material ownership and copyrigths.

BridgetH
July 3, 2011

There are hackers all over the world trying to steal information, and you're worried about Dropbox???

Josemanueldeazadiez
July 3, 2011

ok

T Valade
July 3, 2011

I appreciate the way you explained the changes. Very easy to understand!  You will gain more customers by being transparent and honest.

NiceTryJingo
July 3, 2011

“contacting the Americans some day  for help” or being contacted by the Americans to have American style “help” forced upon them.

Patrixmendonca
July 3, 2011

Ok

Albadlo
July 3, 2011

ok

smurf
July 3, 2011

I must confess I'm TOS-o-phobic by nature, and yes, I would appreciate
if companies would change trend and rather than being instrumental in
law making an impact on people, help people make an impact on law.

 
That said, I can wholeheartedly congratulate you to having started this
debate and drawn attention to it, there's a merit in that which reaches
beyond dropbox, its users and ex-users.

Johnny
July 3, 2011

Thank You. I appreciate Your good service

PMtuts
July 3, 2011

To the people complaing about the rights issue in the TOS: If a company who provides a distribution, sharing or backup service, doesn't have this in their TOS. Then you are technically and legally not allowed or able to upload data to their service. Even the makers of this comment system have to ask you the right to share your comments with others. If you don't agree with this then you really need to take a second look at the TOS from other service providers you use. I bet you'll see that you need to close your account with more then 50% of them. If you don't understand the TOS or need more clarification then you can write your own TOU (terms of use of your data) store it with your files and send a copy to DropBox. Ask them to delete your account if your TOU are in conflict with their TOS. DropBox stated clearly above that you own you data so you are legally allowed to have a TOU for you data that DropBox has to comply to. If you had this in place you were maybe even in the position to sue them for the 4 hour data breach.

Jeff
July 3, 2011

Ok, thanks for your service.

Myles
July 3, 2011

Sorry. You are in the process of loosing a few users here.

I'm currently in the process of migrating the friends & family who I had previously recommended DropBox to, to alternative services.

Your TOS wording is way too loose for comfort, you're talking about skimming images for EXIF data & locational information to “improve services”, and your security doesn't fail safely.. instead you let everyone in the house even without the right keys?

I, in all honesty, cannot take this seriously any more. These kind of failures are the kind of thing I would expect from a guy running a backup service from his mom's basement.

Koforibruku
July 3, 2011

Thank U very much for the explanations, Hope to enjoy much better dropbox.
Kweku, Accra, Ghana -West Africa

Zenbike
July 3, 2011

Sorry, you list my trust when you lied about access by employees being blocked by tech, when really it was only policy.

And when you agreed to give my data to the government on demand. Which I didn't license you to do. They have no right to my data. And you lost my money.

Norma. Palazzolo
July 3, 2011

Thank you for the clear explanation – it is definitely better communication.

Biddy
July 3, 2011

Thanks for pointing this out so explicitly. NOW what do I do? I just love (loved?) Dropbox…

OJ
July 3, 2011

What alternative services would you recommend?

Cliff Cheatwood
July 3, 2011

Thanks for the update

Biddy
July 3, 2011

Please, Drobox, get this sorted. I want to go on using you!  In fact I was thinking that you should have a place for once-off donations (as much freeware/shareware – or whatever it's called – does). But now everyone is running scared… Ungood.

Dropbox
July 3, 2011

Could everyone stop crying now please? Every other service that is like DropBox that you are going to use will have the same licensing TOS … IT JUST DOESNT WORK otherwise … or you would have to agree individually on each file accessed on each computer ever. Newsflash, even if you just email yourself the files to your (free) webmail account somewhere, their TOS states the same thing … otherwise they couldn't host your email and you could not access it from the web.

Thanks everyone for calming down in advance.

Dropbox User
July 3, 2011

And your mail provider/hoster/ISP also has to give your data to the gov. if valid legal process applies, THEY HAVE TO, its the law in the U.S. Did you guys just read your first EULA ever in your life?

Myles
July 3, 2011

There are alternatives such as SugarSync, SpiderOak & Windows Live Mesh to name a few off the top of my head.. I'm in the process of testing these for suitability.

Google “Dropbox Alternatives” and have a look through what's available, YMMV of course.

Yoly
July 3, 2011

Do your modifications in order to better the system and not to interfere with the users. It is not good to learn and re-learn how to operate a system over and over again.  Anyway, keep working and helping us to make our jobs, also, easier.

Anonymous
July 3, 2011

How is it a company like spideroak can have a policy entitled “True Privacy” and virtually do the same thing as dropbox?

Dropbox is on the far left with your data floating freely for anyone to access.  Spideroak is on the far right with not one employee having ANY access to your data…

They both virtually do the same thing, yet some people keep claiming Dropbox must have basically full access to every piece of data you store with them.  Please explain this?

Stucuxi
July 3, 2011

If you are using Dropbox to redistribute copyrighted files to other people, this portion protects Dropbox from being sued by the copyright holder.  Dropbox isn't going through each and every file and finding out who holds the copyright to report them.

So, if Sony were to discover that you were making illegal copies of songs, and using Dropbox to send them out to all your friends, they can come after you, but Dropbox is protected- you agreed to their TOS by saying you hold all the sharing rights to whatever data you put into it.

Elizfin
July 3, 2011

well done could not manage without DB!!! x

Shawn Thompson
July 3, 2011

OK. I will try to muster some patience and renewed trust.

Joy Lynn Rosser
July 3, 2011

Thank you so very much. This helps me feel more secure and increases my understanding of my opportunities with you.

afontes
July 3, 2011

I think more free space would help get our trust level back up! :)

Chromeronin
July 3, 2011

For the same reason you shouldn't use gmail or yahoo, or office live for data you don't own. Copyright law is broken in the US, but it is being forced on anyone who needs to interact with the US.

Fadyna
July 3, 2011

Thank you very much. I tell everybody how simple and effective you are. Keep up the good work!

Chromeronin
July 3, 2011

They have to copy your data to back it up.
They have to format shift your data if they encrypt it or store it pn a dedupelicator.
They have to be able to share your data on all of their front end web servers load balanced anywere in the world to allow other clients to access yor shared folders.

Danielle Dallemagne
July 3, 2011

translate into french ,please !
thanks a lot !Danielle Dallemagne
danielle.dallemagne@gmail.com

PMtuts
July 3, 2011

I'm sorry to inform but I don't know of any government that doesn't grant itself the right to your data when they feel it is necessary. Or unnecessary, like the EU. Laws don't apply to the government they make they only make them.

Sheerjoy
July 3, 2011

All fine with me so far … I noted that I cannot actually WORK from DropBox as in not able to call up a story I am working on and edit it from DropBox… so…um… what good IS my DropBox taking files along with me if I cannot add,delete, modify etc???? Or am I missing something?

Usacross
July 3, 2011

WOW !!  A Company that uses “normal” wording .  How refreshing !!  Keep up the GREAT work .

Mark
July 3, 2011

Yep, you're missing something. I do all my work and did all my final-year uni work straight from my Dropbox.  Worked fine on Windows XP x64, Vista, Windows 7 and various Linuxes

Akifs
July 3, 2011

Thank you for the clear explanation – it is definitely better communication.

Artem
July 3, 2011

You forget than a lot of DP users are not Americans; for God's sake, are you one of those discovering sinister plots everywhere? For once there's a company talking the user's same language, and you are seeing ghosts round the corner!
Good for the use of 'stuff'.

Mark
July 3, 2011

There was a similar problem in the UK a few years back – I told people to basically stop being so up their own arses… there's 60 million other people in this country (UK), why would the government / facebook / dropbox / <organisation here=”"> want to single them out?</organisation>

Chromeronin
July 3, 2011

Then think carefully about what data you store on any cloud service you don't operate yourself.

Mark
July 3, 2011

[edit]: ignore those HTML tags, I'd just typed [organisation here] but with pointy brackets…

Quicksandjezus
July 3, 2011

Good work

Akif
July 3, 2011

Oh and please be like this ..

Mark
July 3, 2011

Please post some stats regarding how many users ACTUALLY deleted their accounts after these changes… for everyone else's amusement – everyone I know who complained about facebook privacy policies changing and threatened to leave still uses facebook daily……..

Mark
July 3, 2011

*thinking back to that recent South Park episode regarding Apple's EULAs…*

Chromeronin
July 3, 2011

You will with the new cloud services. The main reason iTunes cloud is us only, rights ownership of music. You thought you owned your mp3? Nope you bought a right to play it's content only. If it wern't for fair use provisions you woldnt even be allows to copy it to a cd.

Arlys Veen
July 3, 2011

I love you new speak..very easy to now understand.  My son and daughter just drop their myriads of pictures and I can go in and get what I want(I do not take good pictures)  thanks

Artem
July 3, 2011

As far as I understand, they don't want your stuff for anything, and they don't say that they are “free to do whatever they want” with it, do they? 
Are you really sure your stuff is so precious and valuable as to interest anyone? Come on…

spectator
July 3, 2011

An interesting problem, but if you were a publisher hiring me, would you want to make it explicit in our contract that I could not back up work-product in the course of its development?

PMtuts
July 3, 2011

From the SugarSync TOS: (https://www.sugarsync.com/term… 

“Accordingly, you hereby grant to SugarSync a license: (i) to use, copy, transmit, distribute, store and cache Files that you choose to sync and/or store; and (ii) to copy, transmit, publish, and distribute to others the Files as you designate, whether through the sharing or public linking features of the Service, in each case solely to provide the Service to you.

Your Files are not accessible by third parties unless you elect to make them available to others through the Service. We respect the privacy and confidentiality of your Files, so we agree never to disclose your Files to anyone unless you instruct us to do so or a court orders us to disclose them, as provided in our Privacy Policy.”

So basically the same as the DropBox TOS.

The spideroak TOS  doesn't say anything like the above. It also doesn't state what they do with the data. Which maybe is of greater concern then knowing what a company does with your data. One thing I found strange from this TOS (https://spideroak.com/service_… “your Password is NEVER stored or known by SpiderOak. “  Here I wonder how you are ever able to login to this service. If SpiderOak doesn't store your password neither decrypted or encrypted who does it?

From the Windows Live Mesh TOS (http://explore.live.com/micros

“You understand that Microsoft may need, and grant Microsoft permission, to use, modify, adapt, reproduce, distribute and display the content posted on the service to the extent necessary to provide the service.”

spectator
July 3, 2011

Sorry but it does not say they are free to do whatever they want with our stuff. It says that to provide the service, they need to do a lot of things that require permission. Just making a copy of your document requires permission. Now, it might seem that if you upload a document to DB, and if you count on DB backing it up, then you have given them permission. But they are saying now, Hey, you realize that the service YOU ASKED for entails making a copy, so you need to agree that we can do what you asked us to do. 

But they are not getting permission to do anything at all except what they need to do to provide the service you ask for.Lawyers have to eat, too.

Myles
July 3, 2011

It's not a “They're out to watch/get/eat your shoes..” issue, it's the fast and loose wording that'd got a lot of people wary, and when this follows up a significantly stupid security error, it's enough to make some people think twice about trusting even non-confidential or private information to them.

Roberto
July 3, 2011

ok and thanks to you

Appledevenezuela
July 3, 2011

Loud and clear

Thanks a lot for your services.

Take care

Fernando

xXx
July 3, 2011

Use your brain!

José Antonio
July 3, 2011

Wunderbar

xXx
July 3, 2011

The “your data isn't valuable anyway” argument is the same as “who doesn't have something to hide doesn't need to be afraid”. We should decide what we keep private for whatever reason.
BTW: The TOS could be much more restrictive concerning privacy. I even doubt it is legal in Germany.

Lucking
July 3, 2011

Thanks Mr. Dropbox !!

Claudio Götz
July 3, 2011

Why are you using my EXIF data for providing a better service??? Thease are my images and why do you have an interest of how i'm taking my photos?

Khanazees
July 3, 2011

ok. it is very clear.thanks

Luis Humberto
July 3, 2011

Thanks for dropbox excellent tool

Gabi Meier83
July 3, 2011

We've never seen something like that from Google, did we?

Vlad
July 3, 2011

um ..”le, THE SERVICES AND SOFTWARE ARE PROVIDED “AS IS”, AT YOUR OWN RISK,
WITHOUT EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF ANY KIND.” are you sure that's ok ?

Fabio Babo
July 3, 2011

Thanks guys!!!

Gordon Truefitt
July 3, 2011

Thank you.

Jimsandersaz
July 3, 2011

I am cool with the new documents; but for those who are still nervous about picky details, remember that you can use several different encryption tools of your own, depending on platform. As much as I trust Dropbox, I still post some material as encrypted disk images (.DMG) using Apples easy Disk Utility. This is not a black and white world.

Steve
July 3, 2011

Thanks for this, Dropbox!

Mohsen
July 3, 2011

Thanks a lot

Myles
July 3, 2011

Aye, thus my comment of “I'm in the process of testing these for suitability.” and “YMMV of course.”

I have to say, I don't see any of them saying things like ” .. Some photos you place in Dropbox may contain recorded location
information. We may use this information to optimize your experience.  .. ” ( Quoted from https://www.dropbox.com/privac… )

And research so far doesn't indicate these services have left the keys to the kingdom on the front porch either.

Glass houses, etc.

I'm aware that certain caveats have to be made to allow a service like this to exist, allowing them a limited licence to perform basic and various duties, I'm not questioning this aspect as you assume I am. I'm questioning certain aspects that are non-standard, and the security fiasco.

Ionvarela
July 3, 2011

Thanks

Stani235
July 3, 2011

ok and thanks to you

Rejean Berard
July 3, 2011

Thanks for a very clear TOS and excellent services.

Cstapleton357
July 3, 2011

I've been able to edit in DropBox, as long as the computer I am using has the same program it was created in.

Ainsleybr
July 3, 2011

This is an invaluable service from which I benefit a great deal so, thanks for clarity and brevity

Aristide Lai
July 3, 2011

Thanks for a fair and clear TOS.

Al
July 3, 2011

Thanks also

Lucivaldofalcon
July 3, 2011

thank you for preocupation.

Nathanvorwerk
July 3, 2011

So this is in response to your security breach so you don't get sued?

Ambroziaa
July 3, 2011

This my sound stupid to you but how do I know if I have Dropbox & if I do can you send me the instructions? I don't remember signing up for your service so if you could send me a copy showing that I signed up for it, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. Linda

Gustavo
July 3, 2011

Thank's

Davidb416
July 3, 2011

This is standard wording you will find in any software license agreement

Fionaobri
July 3, 2011

I'm new to dropbox I was wondering if there is someone I can email in relation to using the service as I have tried to follow your instructions and haven't been able to do what I wanted to do which was to send a copy of a short 8 minute video to a friend.  I don't know if she needs to be a dropbox user to be able to view it?  Thank you Fiona.  Also thanks for the above notice which makes things very clear.

PMtuts
July 3, 2011

About the photo part. As you quoted it yourself “We may use this information to optimize YOUR experience.” This means that if I upload photos that they may use this information to optimize MY expierence, not yours. Meaning that they may open up for displaying ME a map with location information whenever I choose to view one of my photos on their website or mobile app. They are not allowed according to their own TOS to share this geo-location information with 3rd parties since you own it and you only have given DropBox a license to use it to the extent reasonably necessary for the DropBox Service. The  license is solely to enable DropBox to technically administer, display, and operate the Services.

Cristina Póvoas
July 3, 2011

Wow! I thought the whole Dropbox concept was as good as it could get, but you guys go and manage to improve what was arealy great, so congratulations! :D

Kreweesti
July 3, 2011

Thank you for your accomplacements!
You guys rock!

Babau
July 3, 2011

..that  number  3..is  pure Bullshit  all so call info gatherings are solely for Pure Control  and  nothing else  if U doubt  i can deliver evidence..lol..

Samwomack
July 3, 2011

They never said they're using your exif data on your photos… There isn't only one definition for “metadata” they're talking about something completely different. Chill out and read…

staggart
July 3, 2011

Dropbox is a great tool and I love it.  It's a bummer it will never be 100% secure since you have people managing passwords and people inevitably do what people do.

Len
July 3, 2011

If you put or hide somthing in Drop box that is illigal or against your gov, then thats the risk you take all of my info although personal I am NOT ashamed of

StepnSteph
July 3, 2011

Companies can't really do anything about legal demands, Zen. If you want to be entirely certain that your stuff can't be accessed then encrypt it yourself. You can use TrueCrypt, GnuPG, or if you're feeling lazy you can use an archive program like 7-Zip to compress, encrypt, and password protect the archive.

You do need to take responsibility for your data at some point, especially if you let that data leave your PC.

Myles
July 3, 2011

The problem I have is why are they scanning the images, or any data I upload, for this information? Why can't I choose not to have this done?

I know they hash the files so that they can perform the de-duplication and so on, I understand that a hash of my files are made and stored..  but I didn't agree to having the contents of my files analysed and the information gained to be used by anyone but myself or anyone I specifically share with.

I didn't agree when I initially signed up to allow them to mine the data I upload to “enhance” my experience, and I don't see an option to Opt-Out of this service. If I wanted that kind of experience, I'd use Google to store my information.

Bait and Switch, I think that's possibly a term I'm thinking of at the moment that strikes as relevant.

Pius Haettenschwiler
July 3, 2011

My compliments to the Drpbox team. You are doing a great job and a useful communication as well.
P.H. from Switzerland

Dave Freer
July 3, 2011

It would be nice. But so would a million dollars. Neither are going to suddenly arrive with me without a great deal of added work and probably expense, which I cannot manage right now.  Whereas DB has already wasted a few hundred thousand on intellectual property lawyers who wrote a document so poorly it has come close to destroying their business. So perhaps you would like to dedicate your efforts to helping them fix this (which is what I was trying to do), rather than sniping at me?

Ludicavale
July 3, 2011

Thanks!

Hqmark
July 3, 2011

Like for me all is excellent.

Digidee
July 3, 2011

I had to record all my website data updates  on cd's to be able to transfer everything daily
to my backup computer.  With dropbox, I have been able to just transfer immediately
without using cd's.  I love dropbox and couldn't live without it.

Pokerbydutch
July 3, 2011

love drop box, I write on my desktop, transfer my daily work to my ipad and then check how I can make corrections, note the page in notebook, etc. john

Wipaporn
July 3, 2011

thanks

John Bradshaw
July 3, 2011

I truly love the “stop whining” -crowd. :: eye roll ::

They're the first ones to raise the pitchforks when their data is compromised yet give the company a pass when others' is.

Alba3
July 3, 2011

Thanks Dropbox.

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

You write like you have a brain.  Why don't you use it?  Search for my comment regarding DropBox overestimating the intelligence of their users.  You are exhibit A.

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

The “Service”, which you think is undefined, is the combination of features that YOU elect to use. Sheesh.

Happy Dropbox User
July 3, 2011

Awesome that the changes are called out (and further explained) in plain English in this blog post. Thank you! – Happy Dropbox User

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Another comment by somebody who has only 1/2 or less of their brain in operation.

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Another person (and at least 6 others at this moment who have 'liked' this) who has no more than 1/2 of a brain and does not understand English.  Sheesh.

Meunier Jg
July 3, 2011

There is legal ambiguity in your formulation
By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.
What does ” service mean” It is not your personnal definition that  is here important. Any usage by Dropbox could be said a ” service” . At least asking permission would be a requisit.
This is is your definition of service It is not what is written on the TOS.
 ”This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display, and operate the Services.”I do hope you clarify your terms because with these terms… it is direct invitation to not touch Dropbox anymore…

Edgardo
July 3, 2011

Thanks for developing Dropbox, it is very useful!!! love the way we can upload files and then retrive them in any computer, at any part of the world!

Maki
July 3, 2011

it  is great.Thanks

Phoenix
July 3, 2011

All right, I doubt. How does the country we're in, the OS we use, and a unique ID equate to Dropbox controlling its users? Post your evidence.

JC
July 3, 2011

'By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we
work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive,
royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare
derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of,
perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it
necessary for the Service.”'

Encrypt your data.

Fragre83
July 3, 2011

grazieeeee!!!!!!!!!!

Martinvera2011
July 3, 2011

genial. thanks

Phoenix
July 3, 2011

Not an official response, but here's the gist: 'Services' means any interface provided by Dropbox that you can interact with in some way.

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

They DO say it, you nit. “to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service” says it loud and clear to anybody listening.  See my comment below about the way contracts are interpreted.  It is to the users' advantage to not have reasonably necessary more narrowly defined. Sheesh.

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

They DO say it, you nit. “to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service” says it loud and clear to anybody listening.  See my comment below about the way contracts are interpreted.  It is to the users' advantage to not have reasonably necessary more narrowly defined. Sheesh.

John the Guest
July 3, 2011

Amen.

Espartaco Rd
July 3, 2011

I´m agree

Claudio Götz
July 3, 2011

thats clear.. but i would like to know the reason for changing thease points..? They wanna track us like google tries to do?^^ Please dont understand me wrong, i think analyzing things can and will make our lifes easier because they can optimize everything for us, but is this anonym?

Shuaiwei0327
July 3, 2011

es cambiam muchos?

Nik
July 3, 2011

I wrote to DB, asking about the wording of this TOS. I pointed out that it seemed almost certain this TOS was designed with money in mind, in some way or another (what isn't?). I got this response from Dropbox

“it is placed in the TOS so that, should Dropbox be acquired, it would
be able to transfer the data to the ownership of the new company”.

I think that should settle once and for all the debate about what's going on here. If there's some way for me to post this email publicly in such a way that others will know it's an actual email received from DB and not just something I ran up in a word processor, let me know.

Piarosati
July 3, 2011

Thank you.

Craggersr
July 3, 2011

Basically I'm not using DropBox anymore then…

“By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we
work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive,
royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare
derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of,
perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent we think it
necessary for the Service.”'

Shelley Elmblad
July 3, 2011

Sheerjoy, I think something is missing.  I am a journalist/editor and I work from multiple locations, on multiple computers, and I use DropBox constantly.  Do you have DropBox installed on all the computers you use?  Although it can be used online, the desktop components automate saving new and modified files.   This link – https://www.dropbox.com/help/4 – explains syncing between computers, if you're working on multiple computers.  If you work on the same laptop where ever you go, then try browsing https://www.dropbox.com/help, maybe that will help you to discover why things aren't working as expected.

Arshad Pathan
July 3, 2011

Thanks DropBox

Howiekeefe
July 3, 2011

Great Service!

Emedelce
July 3, 2011

Gracias por vuestra comunicación. Estoy conforme con DB, y con sus cambios, que suponen mejoras en el servicio al usuario.

Chaiguy72
July 3, 2011

Great service & file retainability. Thank you for your service.

Jeanhare
July 3, 2011

Your $100 price is going to make it difficult to maintain me as a customer as many other good sites are free

Lebauer
July 3, 2011

I truly appreciate your service, and wish more people qwould use your excellent product.

I thank you for your service

Anonymous
July 3, 2011

“We sometimes need your permission to do what you ask us to do with your stuff (for example, hosting, making public, or sharing your files). By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service. This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display, and operate the Services. You must ensure you have the rights you need to grant us that permission.”

Excuse me?! 
Wow… that's a bridge to far, so-long dropbox.. it has been a short relationship.

Find it a bit strange as you can use a privat box, but dropbox is allowed… thanks, but no thanks.

Readeur
July 4, 2011

Easy to understand!  Thank you.

Lorrie
July 4, 2011

I'm officially addicted to drop box – thanks! I work from several different computers – good bye memory stick – well okay I use it as a backup.

Schin
July 4, 2011

ok tq

Rutger
July 4, 2011

Thanks for your update. I am happy with the transparency from your blog and won't read the other legal documents. I hope you understand.
Rutger

Francisco Ofn
July 4, 2011

explain me “EXTENT REASONABLY”……

Shigex999
July 4, 2011

ok

Aaron I
July 4, 2011

“worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use,
copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or
format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display”
You certainly don't define what is “reasonable” for providing the “service”.

Basically, legally, you guys can then re-license IP-protected work if you change your policy/sell the company and we don't delete the data in time even though at the moment it is so you can provide the “service”.

marenzo
July 4, 2011

Gostamos muito e recomendamos. 

http://www.marenzo.net

Cristinamarco
July 4, 2011

I liked so much.

Richard Parmelee
July 4, 2011

please keep me updated on any improvements or changes to Dropbox. it is already easy to you and any improvements would be welcome. Thanks………………….

olyspirit
July 4, 2011

Shame yourchanges of policies are just in English. Even if I do understand in general, the subtle parts are absolutly impossible to understand…. not open minded this point….. share totally the update by thinking of a translation? would help a lot….

Luscalco
July 4, 2011

I love dropbox, it makes my life easier!
Could you fix the bug on iOS5?? When I try to uplaod any file it closes.

Noombeat
July 4, 2011

Ok

Cristinamarco
July 4, 2011

please keep me updated on any improvements or changes to Dropbox

Henry
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the updates, DropBox is definitely one of the best ideas on the web.

Yuyu Salazar
July 4, 2011

Gracias Dropbox, y quedo en espera de sus actualizaciones y/o cambios, asi que cualquier desicion será bienvenida. saludos =)

Perry
July 4, 2011

This does not make sense to me. I shouldn't have to give copyright away to store my information. I would hope the DropBox responds to these comments at some point – a new blog post would be great. Unfortunately, until I have a reasonable answer, I will have to use some other service. And I won't be able to recommend Dropbox to anyone.

Deanna
July 4, 2011

Thank you for the explanations. Thank you for the easy to use system. It has been working great so far.It is good to how these things and understand what it is that we are reading. Thank you for that.

Deanna

Taniasdias
July 4, 2011

thank you for the expplanation.
Tania

Mduerr
July 4, 2011

What a great application!

Jay Friedman
July 4, 2011

Dropbox is very cool.   Worried about your most important files?  Don't put them in dropbox.

asdviub8
July 4, 2011

Print screens with the header visible are fine for most purposes

BSU2006
July 4, 2011

Your de-duplication provisions suck.

Nguyenthihong80
July 4, 2011

I love dropbox. It made my work getting easier. Thank you so much and please keep me update.

Cos Sq
July 3, 2011

I agree

BSU2006
July 4, 2011

Exactly. There are numerous file-sharing sites that dont require giving away IP or have de-duplication provisions. Dropbox, once I really studied it, sucks.

Robbie McCarty
July 4, 2011

I appreciate your efforts to clearly communicate your policies and procedures. I have been very happy with dropbox, and share many professional development files with rural teachers who depend on technology to provide opportunities to collaborate.

One comment mentioned fees, but the information I received did not indicate that I would be charged. Can you confirm or deny?

Frikki
July 4, 2011

Anyone how stores “Sensitive” document on thing like Dropbox is an idiot…. I use Dropbox and love it…. Just keep the Top Secrets out of it :)

Alzaimer
July 4, 2011

Muchas gracias Dropbox por las explicaciones.

Macka
July 4, 2011

You aren't giving it away:
“You retain ownership to your stuff. You are also solely responsible for
your conduct, the content of your files and folders, and your
communications with others while using the Services.”

You are giving them permission to transmit your files between YOUR devices, granting them permission to convert say a PDF into a format that is viewable online, etc.

Andy
July 4, 2011

It really makes perfect sense. In order to provide the service, they have to make copies of your files. Unless they have a licence to make those copies, they would be infringing your copyright. So you give them permission (that's a licence) to make copies for the purpose of providing the service. You'd think that just by using the service you could be seen to be giving that permission, but copyright law is happier when things are spelled out and consent is explicit, hence the written copyright licence. Make sense now?

Macka
July 4, 2011

Where does it say you give away IP?
Oh, wait: “You retain ownership to your stuff. You are also solely responsible for
your conduct, the content of your files and folders, and your
communications with others while using the Services.”

asdviub8
July 4, 2011

Who cares about the threatening ToS. Come on guys DB is something to sync stuff and it does that great… Encrypt anything you dont want people seeing… For ex: i wouldnt give a rats ass if my term paper was in the hands of DB… But it sure as hell matter if its a copy of my passport.

Macka
July 4, 2011

Try to log in with the web interface using your email address.

Macka
July 4, 2011

There are very few people who can access your data at DB, like Spideroak, access is heavily restricted.

Jime924
July 4, 2011

very well explained – wish most of those who provide their services for a more productive (and free) digital world would be like you people – more power and keep up the good work !

Macka
July 4, 2011

They don't annalise the contents of your file unless you request it and even then the analysis is restricted to format conversion.

The metadata is data used to make the service run, it has nothing to do with EXIF

Marv
July 4, 2011

I like Dropbox but this sucks… you mean Dropbox now has rights to take the business ideas etc from documents in my folders? NO F`ING WAY!!

“We sometimes need your permission to do what you ask us to do with your
stuff (for example, hosting, making public, or sharing your files). By
submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work
with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free,
sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works
(such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly
display that stuff to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.
This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display,
and operate the Services. You must ensure you have the rights you need
to grant us that permission.”

MN9999
July 4, 2011

Thank you Dropbox

Kamalarangan
July 4, 2011

i find very useful keep upgrading

rangan kamalarangan@gmail.com

On the way Guest
July 4, 2011

There are many spaces here to show your brain and your English capability. In case you are kind enough, why don't you express your klowledge here?

Jow
July 4, 2011

Ditto Marv's comment. The verb “use” is dangerous. We started using Dropbox as a holding service and not as a using service. We're outta here — and sorry, but you've now placed us in a position where we need to write to the businesses we recommended use (there's that word again) your services.

Nelwol
July 4, 2011

I wish that more internet firms, e.g. Apple and Google, took the time to keep their users informed that you have taken.  You allow me to know what and why you are doing something,  and give me the opportunity to chose to accept, or move off.

I personally intend to make more use of Download, and get out from under the Cloud of Mobile Me.

nelwol

Najib_agisymar
July 4, 2011

Better if Dropbox upgrade space for free

amali
July 4, 2011

Wonderful
Thanks Dropbox

Scott Jordan
July 4, 2011

“Encrypt anything you don't want people seeing”  

+1

Some tips on this precise topic: http://unvexed.blogspot.com/20

Mike Miclos
July 4, 2011

Ten-four, lod and clear, good job!

unfamousmonster
July 4, 2011

you lost me. thank you for trying a takeover of content as subtle as the Spanish Inquisition.

Mike Miclos
July 4, 2011

Ten-four, good job!

bc
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the clear explanation.  I wish more companies were as clear in their TOS.

Oliveraschin
July 4, 2011

GREAT!!!
THANKS FOR EVERYTHING

Andrew
July 4, 2011

I guess you didn't actually read that quote:

” to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.
This license is solely to enable us to technically administer, display,
and operate the Services. You must ensure you have the rights you need
to grant us that permission.”

If you understand anything about legal terms of service that statement sounds perfectly fine to me since when I remove the files it removes their right to ” technically administer, display, and operate the Services”

Temmokan
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the updates, they all seem quite reasonable.

Bill Posters
July 4, 2011

@Andy:twitter perhaps you didn't read the part that says “…use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works of, perform, or publicly display that stuff… ” Regardless of how much you say it isn't so, the terms say it is so. When you upload stuff to Dropbox, it means you're ok with Dropbox distributing and publicly displaying your stuff if they ever need to.

I'm definitely not ok with that, and will be closing my dropbox and looking for something else.

Taina Veloso Justo
July 4, 2011

Thanks for all the news, Dropbox team.

Bill Posters
July 4, 2011

Um… you're also giving them permission to “use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works of, perform, or publicly display that stuff”. Just because you're interpretation of the terms is more forgiving, doesn't mean the terms are actually forgivable. Dropbox is not Facebook. For them to run the service, there should be no mention in the terms of “perform” and “publicly display” for all content that is uploaded.

Narayanarao Vankayalapati
July 4, 2011

Thanks. This sevice is GREAT

Davidyoo
July 4, 2011

Great and Thanks, Dropbox from Seoul, Korea!

Bill Posters
July 4, 2011

Exactly. It seems Dropbox are trying to “social media-rize” their service. Probably because it will increase their value if they have the same terms as Facebook. The thing is though, Facebook is the kind of place where content is expected to be shared and copied and displayed and sub-licensed. Dropbox is NOT like that. The expectation is on PRIVACY, and SECURITY and SENSITIVE FILES. Who the hell would want to throw “royalty-free, sublicenseable rights” into that mix? Really disappointing.

Palaisideal
July 4, 2011

Cool– thankyou!

Nebol
July 4, 2011

I don’t WANT to have to trust Dropbox, I don’t want to have the need to trust ANYONE, to have to consider and make a judgment, not on Dropbox but on the future owners of Dropbox, and the future laws in the country of the future Dropbox main office. That’s not safety. Safety is KNOWING, with a 100% (and not a per mil less) certainty, that noone but you has acces to your files, now and for all future. Dropbox “security” might be safe enough for you to store your playlists in, but for real security purposes, it’s a no-go.

Liucf
July 4, 2011

Thanks for all the Infom.

Bill Posters
July 4, 2011

Hilarious! It's like Dropbox hired an army of commenters to write positive fluffy stuff in response to the fact users now have to hand Dropbox the sub-licensing keys to their stuff.

Miro
July 4, 2011

Good news!!!!

wiredfractal
July 4, 2011

There's a reason why iOS 5 is called BETA.

The Distant One
July 4, 2011

I have to say, these changes to the TOS are quite ludicrous.  The referenced section of the Google TOS is not at all the same, and when you examine the TOS for similar services, you will not find any of these claims on the property of the user, at all. For example: http://www.wuala.com/en/about/… and also: https://spideroak.com/service_…  

Both spideroak and Wuala provide services that are virtually identical to dropbox, and yet neither claims the need to sublicense or otherwise claim any rights on their user's documents.  In fact, both companies cannot even decrypt their user's documents!  You will also find that these terms are laid out very clearly, precisely, and unambiguously. 

I quite like dropbox as a service, and I'd really rather have kept using it, as it was very elegant in execution, and very reliable.  But this update to the TOS makes that pretty much impossible.

Anonymous
July 4, 2011

Yeah, that pretty much is an ass-covering license. Not meant to mean they can copy your shite.

You see, in the course of running their service they need to duplicate your files, move them around and, yeah, store them on their servers.

If you make your folder public, that also means that they are technically providing your file for display / download to the public.

In some cases, some people may try to sue for “copyright” infringement as DB is duplicating their work / allowing people to access their work.

So this is just to guard against that. Pretty simple if you understand tech and can speak lawyerese.

GAB
July 4, 2011

Thank you Dropbox

firDws
July 4, 2011

Fantastic

LumBerry
July 4, 2011

So, from [Update 2], we can put our pitchforks away? No personal content given to 3rd parties, or anything else regarding the July 1st post? I deleted my development projects and downgraded my account, not something I was happy about, I love Dropbox!

Vale Villegas R
July 4, 2011

Thanks form Chile!! I use a lot Dropbox!!

Isabelle
July 4, 2011

Thank you for everything Dropbox!

Héloïse
July 4, 2011

Je suis française et parle très mal anglais. Je crois comprendre que vous allez modifier les conditions d'utilisation de la Dropbox et renfocer les paramètres de protection ce qui serait très bien.
Héloïse

Dr. Michael Haley
July 4, 2011

Good stuff… Thanks for the updates… and the service. I use dropbox everyday and don't know what I would do without it.

Soxy
July 4, 2011

I am sorry to see that numerous people a) do not have a good grasp of the English language, b) have never read a clear speaking legal document, and c) are paranoid.

Well done Dropbox team, I think you are perfectly clear and legitimate. And yes, of course, anything that is really sensitive has no business living out there in cloud land. Remember, if you want a secret kept you don't tell anyone – not even your partner or best friend :-)

Bill Posters
July 4, 2011

@Andrew, the problem is that “technically administer, display, and operate the Services.” is potentially a HUGE scope of permission, and could be interpreted to mean a lot of things not described in the terms. This means that when Dropbox says “This license is solely to enable us to…” they are being a bit sneaky, because “soley” is referring to a potentially wide range of reasons. “operate the services”… notice the plural? It's not just one service it's multiple services… but how many? What is this list of services?

rafalry
July 4, 2011

So who owns the “derivateve work” of thumbnail ? The thumbnail is mine or not?

Macka
July 4, 2011

No claims of ownership? that is a worry.

DropBox claims that YOU own YOUR files.

Kristian Ask
July 4, 2011

Not that I'm too worried but in principal drop box is free to do whatever with uploaded files. i can't see that it should be needed to grant this unless I want files to be publically visible. Bill is right.

Doc Izzy
July 4, 2011

I appreciate the plain language and bringing it to our attention. Unfortunately I will only be using your service for content encrypted by a client application on my Mac; like 1Password. Too bad because the pending demise of iDisk has me seeking a new cloud-based file storage solution.

Sollichm
July 4, 2011

Very nice and easy to understand.

Yatagan8067
July 4, 2011

i am agree,and above these condition but i d’not whole read your terms and condition above but i agree.thanks

The Distant One
July 4, 2011

I suggest reading the links, and comparing the language for yourself.  It would be useless for SpiderOak or Wuala to claim ownership of your files, as they cannot read them.  Livedrive, another service makes clear that they only claim the rights Dropbox has added to their TOS on -shared- content, which is more reasonable. But really, I suggest taking ten minutes and reading the TOS's I linked to, and arriving at your own conclusion.

Strat1227
July 4, 2011

If you read the full Terms of Service you'll notice why it's “Services” (notice the capital “S”). They make very clear what “Services” refers to, and then makes it very clear that in subsequent parts of the TOS they'll just refer to them as “Services” to conserve space.

It's like saying “The Undersigned” or whatever in a contract. As long as it's fully defined elsewhere, you can refer to it later on without re-defining it.

if it said “operate the services” (like you said) instead of “operate the Services” (which are pre-defined) then it would be sneaky. As-is, it's fine.

–strat

SV
July 4, 2011

thanks Dropbox team – your drop box is the best thing I have come across in a long time – simplifying my life as I move between computers.

Kenb
July 4, 2011

Thanks, keep up the good work

Eugene
July 4, 2011

Thanks.  Good improvements.
Eugene

The Distant One
July 4, 2011

Very true. The failure to provide a good definition of the “services” is a serious failing of the TOS.

lebo
July 4, 2011

In english, always good for people using english…
Hoping one day they put more langages access
Talking and writing are very different…

lebo
July 4, 2011

Speaking 6 langages but never been in english school…
Do we have all to go to use internet?

Michael Bolton
July 4, 2011

One of the reasons that there's such angst about the more vague terms of service is that the clear ones are so clear.

So here's a radical suggestion: if that's what the Terms of Service /mean/, let that be what the Terms of Service /say/. I appreciate DropBox's attempts to use plain English, rather than legalese. So, let's finish the job. If the purpose of obtaining licence to make copies is to make (say) backup or transferrable copies, say that. If the purpose of the sublicenceable rights is to provide access to data in the event of an acquisitioin, say that. Et cetera.

—Michael B.s

The Distant One
July 4, 2011

I think there may actually be a reasonable argument to be made for granting those rights for shared content, as those are essentially public.  However, the granting of those rights is pretty much implicit when a user shares a file.  If they restricted the language above to shared files, I'd have felt a lot better, but I've moved on, and discovered similar services that are actually more useful, in some respects.

John Owen
July 4, 2011

“…to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service”.  Since you have concerns you should consult a lawyer but in my opinion the clauses are reasonable.  Like anything, certain clauses sounds unreasonable when taken out of context (i.e. you dropped the language I quoted here).  In order to operate the service, they have to copy and transform (create a derivative encrypted version) of your stuff. I agree with everyone who says 'don't put really important information in the cloud anyway'.

Us
July 4, 2011

Increases my confidence in the service, Thank you!

Runningman
July 4, 2011

The rest of that sentence is “ that stuff to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.”  I don't know why you would omit it unless you're intentionally trying to mislead people.  That's like me paraphrasing a contract that says “I can use your car only if you tell me to” as “I can use your car” and getting mad that you now have unlimited rights to my car.  This is pretty simple and clear.  Sentences have meanings only as a whole.  I understand that and courts understand that, and this is not some evil backdoor.  They spelled out that they they can't do this stuff on a whim, but only as a technical necessity to fulfill your own requests.

Maheshgurbani
July 4, 2011

Thanks..Bring it on…keep the good work…cheers

Paul Bator
July 4, 2011

I actually read through…told me nothing. Except when my eyes caught 100%__that told me something…nice try tho, boys, & if you'd like to hire me to write/edit your next missive (that's a pun intended just to show off a bit), I'm available–and good…and clear.

Mezzah45
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the updating of policy changes. I enjoy using the service, and will continue to do so.
Mez

Nik
July 4, 2011

” However, the granting of those rights is pretty much implicit when a user shares a file.”

Sorry, but this is simply not true

Julcar
July 4, 2011

no la tienen en español????

Rev.
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the clarification on this.  I feel better about it.

Theoshimas
July 4, 2011

ALOHA, Very easy to understand all the changes…MAHALO..theoshimas…………..

Alejandraavalosrogel
July 4, 2011

I'm just starting to use your service, it's really usefull

Superpexs
July 4, 2011

thank you i like you more.

Fradomit
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the updates and the service. To have this service free it's great.

lebo
July 4, 2011

Super de “dire” que l'anglais juridiquement n'est pas trop précis et que si c'était en français ou autre langue on se sentirait plus à l'aise.
Je donne ce site à beaucoup d'amis/es pour une utilisation propre. Beaucoup ne parlent pas anglais ou très peu (quand on arrive à un certain âge, on ne peut retourner à l'école pour apprendre un langage (un système de signes vocaux ou graphiques) ☺

Fradomit
July 4, 2011

Thank you for all. It's really usefull

Rajendra
July 4, 2011

Good initiative. Thanks for updating the policy and TOS. I will enjoy the service of drop box.

Huzainah A
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the updating of policy changes. I enjoy using the service, and will continue to do so

Vo Hoang Nguyen
July 4, 2011

It is fantastic, thanks for updates. thanks a lot,

Eo38
July 4, 2011

is it me or are all the comments here plants by dropbox management? This whole thing is extremely scary and disturbing

Elem2618
July 4, 2011

Your service is so easy to use and excellent that Apple would do well to learn a lesson or two from your company. Thanks for keeping it free of charge!

Filippo Bracci
July 4, 2011

THKS …. MORE CLEAR NOW

Sadagopan Thirumalai
July 4, 2011

i agree

Ivan Markus
July 4, 2011

Dear TEAM, thank you for the updates and service, I like it,….no better to say I love it really.

Williamckho
July 4, 2011

i agree

Franck Betriche
July 4, 2011

i agree

Tiongsl
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the update based on your sharing above it's a thump up for me

kenwhite
July 4, 2011

Okay, I agree, but wouldn't Dropbox be a rotten name for UPS? Or a medical service that rushes organs to hospitals for transplants.

mbouzalis
July 4, 2011

mbouzalis o.k.

mvprod
July 4, 2011

My computer reads you type so small that even my geezer glasses don't work. The type on the comments seems fine. Go figure

Agroozzy
July 4, 2011

Thank you for your concern. I thank the team Dropbox for the  software and the excellent service

pb
July 4, 2011

Love Dropbox.  I have it on work, home PC, netbook, iPad, and iPhone.  I also like getting upgraded storage space for refering others to Dropbox.  Keep up the great work.

Ronv
July 4, 2011

I am amazed at the number of people who think Dropbox might leak their documents to the world. Imagine your lawyer taking your private papers and showing them to your friends and enemies. The news – even the suspicion – that he was a sieve would destroy him utterly. These people survive only if their reputation is impeccable. It is this that is going to keep Dropbox  honest  – not the detailed wording of a piece of prose known as a TOS.

Damiat44aini
July 4, 2011

I agree with your changes for a better service,, thanks for updating

Damiat44aini
July 4, 2011

I agree with your changes for a better service,, thanks for updating

Dwatney
July 4, 2011

Thnak you, I feel very much reassured

28slappz
July 4, 2011

thats whats up drop box is the ultimate way

Stephenokelloawany
July 4, 2011

You are the people who exactly know what secret information is. But thanks to drop box you seem to be the most clear now and will continue using your service. All is fine with the edits made. Cheers drop box team.

jyotiprakash
July 4, 2011

thanks for updating

Guest
July 4, 2011

Hilarious! It's like Troll Bill has nothing better to do than sit here all day and post negative comments spouting nonsense.

SEO | link building
July 4, 2011

thanks for telling us about your updates !

Kingrudyz
July 4, 2011

DROPBOX IS THE BEST IN THE UNIVERSE!

Bezeleel
July 4, 2011

Keep it up, We can't drop Dropbox…thanks for updates.

Adina Enden
July 4, 2011

seems good

Farida
July 4, 2011

I AGREE;THANK YOU FOR UPDATING

Richwantsin
July 4, 2011

this is alarming
so Dropbox now owns all of your data 
and can potentially sell it on?

be careful what you store in there

Herman Caron
July 4, 2011

Thank you for the update and clarification.

Info
July 4, 2011

I agree

Umbaci
July 4, 2011

i agree

Cragels
July 4, 2011

That's fine to updated policy and Terms of Service but they are only documents.  Like laws they too can be ignored or abused.  I find the Dropbox is a great service and generally I am impressed.  They provide the flexible storage and access service and I will provide the security for my important data ensuring that I have backups.  That way we both win.  Remember the weakest link in security is the person with the access.  If you don't treat data seriously you may as well give it way.

Hamid
July 4, 2011

By alphabet order ( or by newes)

Sph
July 4, 2011

Bien lu

Rob
July 4, 2011

OK – any suggestions beside the new “improved- we want your stuff” Dropbox.

J Jared Burrow
July 4, 2011

If you actually read that post, they say multiple times that YOUR STUFF IS YOURS, NOT THEIRS.  To quote it exactly:

“You retain ownership to your stuff.”
“We want to be 100% clear that you own what you put in your Dropbox. We don’t own your stuff.”

Valentina
July 4, 2011

ОК. Согласна.

J Jared Burrow
July 4, 2011

Well, obviously your comment isnt a plant :P

Whollyy
July 4, 2011

i agree

Almabalendra
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the updates.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Rob
July 4, 2011

Why would Dropbox want to PREPARE DERIVATIVE WORKS of my stuff – unless of course it was for sale. Who owns the derivitive work? Which bit is mine & which bit is thiers?

I will be using Wuala in future.

Romanat2002
July 4, 2011

I agree.
Я согласна, все устраивает.

Jmc
July 4, 2011

I agree

Erin Hoffman
July 4, 2011

Guys, this is still a problem. 
<< By submitting your stuff to the Services, you grant us (and those we work with to provide the Services) worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicenseable rights to use, copy, distribute, prepare derivative works (such as translations or format conversions) of, perform, or publicly display that stuff to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service.>>

Is the issue really unclear? “to the extent reasonably necessary for the Service” seems to leave legal holes a mile wide. “sublicenseable”? Even assuming it was okay for you to have this license to my stuff (which it's not), why would you ever need to sublicense it?

I am an author and I use dropbox for backups. I'm reading now that I can no longer do this and am removing all of my work from the service until this is corrected. This is severely disappointing and disruptive.

It really doesn't matter what the license is “solely for”, you're still demanding rights that my livelihood requires me to charge money for, and you're determining the “extent reasonably necessary”, which you could one day decide includes advertising or making money off of my work. It doesn't matter that you don't intend to do this, the license seems to allow it.

Sph
July 4, 2011

lu

Gerwine
July 4, 2011

I love dropbox and its use. Thank you very much!

Sph
July 4, 2011

lu

Shawn
July 4, 2011

Gotta love a service that says it like it is, in plain English (for me at least) and even follows up with basically “we think it sucks to have to so it at all, but if we have to do it, let's make it clear, concise, and not add any crap lawyer words that are not nessasart.”

Right on!

Shawn

jv
July 4, 2011

I agree

jv
July 4, 2011

I agree

Antoinedewit
July 4, 2011

I agree

Antoinedewit
July 4, 2011

I agree

Hanimvl
July 4, 2011

i agree

Iristuan
July 4, 2011

Thanks for Jeff's introducing me to use Dropbox. ~Iris

Ken Blackford
July 4, 2011

If you point at the web page you are reading with your Mouse and Hold the CTRL Key on your keyboard while rolling your mousewheel forward, I twill increase the size of the text on the web page for you so you can read it.  This feature works in many applications these days.

Cesar Ramirez
July 4, 2011

PREPARE DERIVATED WORKS, maybe you want to compress a file or do a format conversion.

Jacob mathew
July 4, 2011

i agree

Semaj Beruk
July 4, 2011

Two examples of derivative works are ” … translations or format conversions.”  Chill out.

Nina Christesen
July 4, 2011

I agree

Mel_twin
July 4, 2011

I agree with the updates

Adlexpo
July 4, 2011

I like dropbox very much

I-fukai
July 4, 2011

Thank you for your information. Anyhow, I just use the team Dropbox for tentatively. One of reason, it can be not trust to use the team box for the business tool for secure.

Andries Meijer
July 4, 2011

I agree

Roberto Rinaldi
July 4, 2011

I agree

Minifranz
July 4, 2011

i agree

Sybercat6
July 4, 2011

Thank you for the clarifications.

Amproshan
July 4, 2011

i agree

Rob
July 4, 2011

I dont want my stuff translated or converted to any other format – it's my stuff not bloody Dropbox's property – and you go grow a brain and chill out yourself!

Hoanghainam386ta
July 4, 2011
Nassor
July 4, 2011

Tks for the update, agreed

Nassor

Fargonion Conclusions
July 4, 2011

Sounds like a plan. AOK by me. Thank you for your open communication with the users of your product, which by the way, I love!
Keep up the good work!
TS

Stuart
July 4, 2011

I've deleted my account like many others, but I thought it was reasonable to explain my decision and what might win me back.

The security debacle a few weeks ago that left every account completely accessible to everyone was a major factor. Such a severe security breach should never be allowed to happen for a company that deals with private data. You'll need to do a good job of explaining exactly how this will be avoided in the future. It also revealed that the data isn't encrypted client-side like some may have been led to believe (not that you ever misled us, but some may still have seen it this way). Introducing client-side encryption would make it theoretically impossible for you to screw up like this again, because you won't be able to access the data. For private data, you have no need to access it.

There also doesn't appear to be a distinction in the TOS between public and private data, so the rights you claim you need for public data ALSO apply to private data. I'd be much more comfortable if you only claimed the rights you need at an absolute minimum, rather than claiming the everything with a “Trust us, we won't screw up again”. A CYA for providing the service, or for a similar breach in the future? I don't know, but you can do better.

Client-side encryption and stronger legal protections for private data? You'll have won me back. Until then, I'm going with something else.

Chris Beale
July 4, 2011

The legal validity of Dropbox T&C will no doubt be tested in court one day. My opinion is that by using Dropbox there is an element of risk. I don't doubt that the Dropbox team will do their best to keep my 'stuff' safe and I'm sure they would not dream of publishing anything of mine, however they are bound by legislation existing and future and they might not have a choice.
In short, if a user has material that would be damaging to them were it to reach the public domain they should consider that risk before storing it in any cloud service.

Massaweantipas
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the service, Liked its Update

jacqueline MONTLAHUC
July 4, 2011

I agree jaclahuc
I do not understand, in french please !!what Is necessary to do ?

Dimitris
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the upgrade, agreed

Jose Luis
July 4, 2011

I agree with the updates

Theboys
July 4, 2011

awesome… thanks

Egomezsa
July 4, 2011

I agree

Bace
July 4, 2011

Gracias.

Ammiraglio
July 4, 2011

I agree

Irbaz286
July 4, 2011

I agree, Thanks

Keegle
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the info on the breach. I didn't know it happened  as I have been away for a while and haven't checked in. I would be interested to know what other options are out there. I think my data should be encrypted as well. Some agencies and people  should not have an easy way to so much data.

Diego Torres
July 4, 2011

I agree

Juli Lotter
July 4, 2011

Thank you for the info

Andy Kruger
July 4, 2011

Well actually, a thumbnail in your Dropbox photo gallery is technically (and in many countries legally) a “derivative work”.

James Park
July 4, 2011

ThankYou so much. I agree with the updates.
I thank you again.

Chaskarla
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the upgrade, I agree

Fugazi_nz
July 4, 2011

Yep – ty – sounds ok to me :)

Esseci61
July 4, 2011

Thank you for your information.

J_de_jazmin
July 4, 2011

I agree

Peter
July 4, 2011

How can I grant you the right to use my music library backup roaylty-free??? So I am only legal when I put my own files, which are self written and self composed in my dropbox.?
Nice to give it away for free…

Time to quit Dropbox and NOT RECOMMEND to friends and colleages???

disapointed Peter

Christian Aymoz
July 4, 2011

I agree, thanks.

Sylwerdragon
July 4, 2011

and btw you can or to be exact you should always use encrypted files so never store normal files in any server …if you want safety always protect your files…and always encript them…if you value your files you will do it

Jutarut
July 4, 2011

I agree, Thanks

Eugenia
July 4, 2011

I agree, thanks.
By the way, there is a change in my e-mail address -

Marc De Saedelaer
July 4, 2011

I agree with the updates.

Laurent
July 4, 2011

I agree

Cesc
July 4, 2011

I agree. Thanks

Serge
July 4, 2011

OK Thanks

Ofrgoren
July 4, 2011

Thanx !

Gabriela Hoff
July 4, 2011

I agree!

Cit
July 4, 2011

I agree

jllbxl
July 4, 2011

I agree

Willie von Abo
July 4, 2011

AGREE

Klausi
July 4, 2011

I agree

Ionescumircea10
July 4, 2011

I agree, Thanks !

Chakort
July 4, 2011

Clear, thanks for the effort to explain these complex issues. I agree.

Gerard
July 4, 2011

Cool

Mhaidarali7
July 4, 2011

I agree

Jduveen
July 4, 2011

sounds good. I agree

Boks4
July 4, 2011

I agree, thanks

Woeps
July 4, 2011

I agree, thanks

Sph
July 4, 2011

cool

fabio
July 4, 2011

molto buono

Jivandar
July 4, 2011

I agree thanks, its amazing

Jccdouglas
July 4, 2011

Thanks for keeping us so well-informed, guys. It's a lot different from a certain major software company! JD

Tentazioni09
July 4, 2011

I agree

Bruce
July 4, 2011

I have read a fair number of your posts and the main objection seems to be security.  I totally agree with this, but I would never share files on the internet that need to be secure.  I just use True Crypt for any such files that I want to put on DB, and need to keep secure.  What is wrong with that?   Nothing, so please folks don't be paranoid and just use True Crypt.

Solaria Piacenza
July 4, 2011

I agree

Sole Piacenza
July 4, 2011

I agree

Yalcintuzun
July 4, 2011

I agree

Massimo Gustato
July 4, 2011

I Agree

Alain Cazalis
July 4, 2011

I agree

Chandni9010
July 4, 2011

agree!

Mora Paolo
July 4, 2011

I agree, thanks for the info

Motte2006
July 4, 2011

I agree

Sph
July 4, 2011

cool

Paolodiorazio
July 4, 2011

i agree

Fabrizio
July 4, 2011

Thanks for complete update information, i Agree !

Klaas
July 4, 2011

I agree

Manondesjardins99
July 4, 2011

i agree

Me
July 4, 2011

it could be a double  bluff!

Mete
July 4, 2011

I agree

Tvvilsteren
July 4, 2011

thanks

Filippo
July 4, 2011

I agree

Cmagaitan
July 4, 2011

you agree to your new TOS

fabian2003
July 4, 2011

I agree.
Kind regards
Gerd

Chiara Mussi
July 4, 2011

I agree!

Werner
July 4, 2011

I agree

Peter
July 4, 2011

Use http://wwwwww.boxcryptor.com to encrypt (AES 128bit) your stuff!!!!
Works fine! I have no problem to grant Dropbox inc. the right to use my encrypted files

:-))

Achille
July 4, 2011

I agree

M Pagani
July 4, 2011

I agree.

Davide Baiada
July 4, 2011

I agree.

Cessen
July 4, 2011

I agree

Paweł
July 4, 2011

I agree 
Dzięki za wyjaśnienia

Fabrizio
July 4, 2011

I agree, thanks

Sunca
July 4, 2011

I agree!

Khaldoun
July 4, 2011

Thank you, I agree

Glover
July 4, 2011

You are giving rights only to do what you ask Dropbox to do, they can not use your music.

Khalid Md.Rasheed
July 4, 2011

Thank You so much. I agree with the updates. 
with best regards.

Ilitimotek
July 4, 2011

thanks

Nicolae Sanduleac
July 4, 2011

Thank you, I agree

Ar Macer
July 4, 2011

Read Naomi Klein's 'The Shock Doctrine' then imagine you are a resident of a state with an interest in knowing about their citizen's work, then in that situation it doesn't take much extension of imagination to realise that all the promises in the world made by a 'reputable' company are pretty useless. So, you haven't yet read the book, don't live in such a place but our stuff needs your care, not someone else's promises to care for it.

Ales Krajicek
July 4, 2011

I agree

lamonicaj
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the clarification!

Fredy Zwenger
July 4, 2011

Thank you, I agree

Lmd1401
July 4, 2011

Was asked to join dropbox so could be updated with new products I have been selling – had trouble getting into a lot of the files.  Am no longer using it.

P Guilizzoni
July 4, 2011

I agree, thanks, piero

zabaro
July 4, 2011

i agree

zabaro
July 4, 2011

i agree

zabaro
July 4, 2011

i agree

Calisesid
July 4, 2011

that's ok …

Amas04
July 4, 2011

I agree, thanks

Alessandro Lobina
July 4, 2011

Clear, thanks for the effort to explain these complex issues. I agree.

Ch1890
July 4, 2011

I agree, thanks!

Vadim1955
July 4, 2011

I agree with new updates

E33design
July 4, 2011

As a music producer that shares with an inside circle. I'm not sure why you can have royalty-free rights to my music. I put trust into Dropbox for the sole reason of being able to choose my circle of file sharing. Why can't there be a line between being beneficial to the public and being a predator.. “Wolf in Sheep's clothing”

Volker Riebenstein
July 4, 2011

I agree

Rntzs
July 4, 2011

thanks i agree

francos
July 4, 2011

I Agree,

all the best!

Nitto82
July 4, 2011

i agree

tony
July 4, 2011

We agree. Works great for us.

T Legrand
July 4, 2011

I agree

Zdepa
July 4, 2011

Was it necessary?

Garysbellamy
July 4, 2011

Seems fine to me, thanks for update.

Schnitga
July 4, 2011

I agree

crg
July 4, 2011

I agree

Pedro Cabrera
July 4, 2011

Conforme, gracias por iinformarnos.

Oudam_rony
July 4, 2011

I agree, thank a lot!!

Ronald Gard
July 4, 2011

Its a really great program but I have one concern. I was told that if someone who I allow to share a file, deletes a file, then Dropbox deletes my original.
If this is correct, it is a weakness in the design of Dropbox. The “Delete” button should be controlled solely by the Administrator.

Haemka
July 4, 2011

OK

Mattlee8
July 4, 2011

Very useful.Appreciated.

J Grim
July 4, 2011

I agree

Vincenzo Grillai
July 4, 2011

Ok

Blindinoomienoo
July 4, 2011

Very worrying you say I give you permission to copy and distribute MY files. What gives you this right? If the files were encrypted at our end, you wouldn't be.able to do that. I will not be using your service until you can promise that you will not use my data. Just because I ask you to backup my data so j can use it away from its source does but mean u want you to distribute, copy or even be able to read it. It's horse @@@@

Lus
July 4, 2011

Thanks for the clarification!

Petr
July 4, 2011

i agree

Gda Commer
July 4, 2011

I agree

Nebol
July 4, 2011

TrueCrypt is no good for Dropbox, as it puts all files in a large container and I lose much of the functionality provided br Dropbox. It's ONE LARGE FILE being synced instead of a huge number of smaller files. See the difference?

Alicia Sanchez
July 4, 2011

I agree

Feancisco Moreno
July 4, 2011

Ok

Nebol
July 4, 2011

“I would never share files on the internet that need to be secure.”

Why not, if they are encrypted and noone else has the possibility to read the contents? Which we all thought was the case? I say you're the paranoid one.

0Re
July 4, 2011

I agree .

TeamSplinter
July 4, 2011

I agree

Richard Graham
July 4, 2011

Thanks for your service and work – you are doing a great job!

raj
July 4, 2011

This seems better

E Brega
July 4, 2011

For me it is OK! I agree
e.brega

Kurt Rangstrup
July 4, 2011

OK – Easy to understand

Cquaranta
July 4, 2011

Note that I have removed Dropbox from my PC and internet from my cellular phone.

Warmhart
July 4, 2011

I agree.

Briviopc
July 4, 2011

i agree

Chau Duc Co., Ltd
July 4, 2011

it's alright.

Nebol
July 4, 2011

Sigh, they're not doing it because they are good guys, they're doing it because they're trying to save their faces and their company, in an effort to avoid more people fleeing from Dropbox. They're trying to put out the fire, see?

Sc
July 4, 2011

ok

Andrea Rinaldi89
July 4, 2011

I agree

Derekeasey
July 4, 2011

lot easier to understand

Photoju
July 4, 2011

Je pense que je suis d'accord, mai,s en anglais ou américain, je ne comprends pas tout !
Si on peut avoir une version traduite ?

Coelho Antonio
July 4, 2011

I agree.

Jnavar42
July 4, 2011

ok ,I agree

Pep Gonsales
July 4, 2011

Thanks

daniel
July 4, 2011

I agree, thanks

Glenn PICKETT
July 4, 2011

You should never put your only version of a file in the Dropbox. You should only copy a file there. This is precisely because this is a SHARING service, and offers the great advantage that everyone doesn't have to try to ensure that their version of a file is updated to be the same as what someonly else has updated it to. From this, it is clear that it is important to keep an original, just in case you don't agree with the update.

Be careful. You must consider the Dropbox folder(s) as being on your hard drive because when you drag and drop you MOVE the files, you don't copy them like dragging and dropping between a C and an F drive, so highlight, right click and select COPY, then go to the Dropbox, right click and select PASTE to copy your files into the Dropbox.

Hope this helps.

Glenn

Nexaly
July 4, 2011

O.K. Thanks !!!

Nebol
July 4, 2011

Wuala is a joke, though. Slow, buggy, an no uninstall. Not an option.

Pep Gonsales
July 4, 2011

Thanks, Regards.

brak3991
July 4, 2011

As I understand it, the license just gives them the right to perform the actions that you've told them to. For example, if you try to download a file you put up on their servers, you are making a copy on the computer you download it to. This license just says that you've given them permission to perform the normal dropbox actions you'd normally do without getting them into any legal trouble.

Robert Meyer
July 4, 2011

Robert Meyer : OK

Nebol
July 4, 2011

Maybe I don't want them to compress a file, and maybe I don't need a format conversion.

Nebol
July 4, 2011

Maybe I don't want them to compress a file, and maybe I don't need a format conversion.

Carlitus Rl
July 4, 2011

I agree.

Athol
July 4, 2011

All clear thanks for the service

Sabine
July 4, 2011

Ok, I agree

Alexandre Borsoi
July 4, 2011

Alright for me. I agree !

Jennings
July 4, 2011

All my stuff on Dropbox seemed to get deleted and it wasn't me so not sure I will use it again

Rosco49
July 4, 2011

I agree, thanks

Emma
July 4, 2011

Thanks for giving explanation in plain English of what the changes are, all sounds fine to me, cheers, Emma

Agustyn
July 4, 2011

O.K. Thanks.

Nebol
July 4, 2011

The main reason I use Dropbox is EASE-OF-USE. Smooth, seamless management of my files, I have them sync'ed and safe without having to think about it, without having to take that extra step. Using yet ANOTHER program to en/decrypt my files IS an extra step that defeats the purpose of using Dropbox in the first place. For me.

Nebol
July 4, 2011

The main reason I use Dropbox is EASE-OF-USE. Smooth, seamless management of my files, I have them sync'ed and safe without having to think about it, without having to take that extra step. Using yet ANOTHER program to en/decrypt my files IS an extra step that defeats the purpose of using Dropbox in the first place. For me.

Info
July 4, 2011

Thanks, I agree

apple79
July 4, 2011

thanks

Aaznar
July 4, 2011

Agree.

Voltaterra
July 4, 2011

OK, I agree.

Jordi Bayó
July 4, 2011

I Agree

Bu
July 4, 2011

I agree! Ok for me.

Marcello Breveglieri
July 4, 2011

it's ok

Mttc74
July 4, 2011

I agree, Thanks

Ah Altan
July 4, 2011

many thx for this wonderful program and service. I've been using with great appreciation since I started using it. One little concern though, I just switched to a new laptop, yesterday, I was trying to retrieve some data, however some folders appeared to be empty! trying over and over, nothing changed. So going back to my old lap top, searching for the same stuff from that machine, voila! they were there!!! Copied the missing files to my new machine, so it seems to have sorted out. Couldn't understand why this happened. discomforted me a bit, so I will try to keep a copy in the machine as well… just to be on the safe side. Maybe I did smth wrong, anyway, this is a great service, many thx again..

Zanina Glavas
July 4, 2011

Thanks

Ornella Abbate
July 4, 2011

Noted, thanks

Fafa Rodriguez
July 4, 2011

Hay alguna versión traducida al español?

Paolo
July 4, 2011

Ok, agree

SIM
July 4, 2011

J'approuve, merci.

J Arroyo
July 4, 2011

agree

Chbresnu
July 4, 2011

yes

Aram
July 4, 2011

i agree

Maxcorrigan
July 4, 2011

Seems fair enough to me

Rbnpql
July 4, 2011

Fine, thanks

Enrique Caralps
July 4, 2011

thank you!
Any improvement for this fantastic tool
is welcome