What’s yours stays yours

Posted by Drew and Arash on July 06, 2011

Hi Dropboxers,

When we announced an upcoming revision to our Terms of Service last week, we aimed to explain the key changes in plain language and to make all our legal docs much clearer. It’s important to us that these terms are easy to understand, and your feedback has told us that we still have work to do.

Most of the concern we’ve been hearing has been about our licensing language. We’ve always believed your stuff is yours and yours alone, and we know that many of you, like us, make a living on your creative output. Photographers, programmers, designers, authors, students, journalists and musicians are just some of the millions of people using Dropbox every day to make their lives easier. The language in this clause was more technical than it needed to be. We understand why terms like “derivative works” and “sublicensable” could sound overly broad or out of place here.

We’ve never been interested in rights broader than what we need to run Dropbox. We want to get this language right so that you’re comfortable using Dropbox with no reservations: what’s yours is yours. Instead of trying to add clarifications to the terms, we’ve rewritten this part from scratch:

…By using our Services you provide us with information, files, and folders that you submit to Dropbox (together, “your stuff”). You retain full ownership to your stuff. We don’t claim any ownership to any of it. These Terms do not grant us any rights to your stuff or intellectual property except for the limited rights that are needed to run the Services, as explained below.

We may need your permission to do things you ask us to do with your stuff, for example, hosting your files, or sharing them at your direction. This includes product features visible to you, for example, image thumbnails or document previews. It also includes design choices we make to technically administer our Services, for example, how we redundantly backup data to keep it safe. You give us the permissions we need to do those things solely to provide the Services. This permission also extends to trusted third parties we work with to provide the Services, for example Amazon, which provides our storage space (again, only to provide the Services).

To be clear, aside from the rare exceptions we identify in our Privacy Policy, no matter how the Services change, we won’t share your content with others, including law enforcement, for any purpose unless you direct us to. How we collect and use your information generally is also explained in our Privacy Policy

We look forward to your feedback, and hope we’ve addressed your concerns.

- The Dropbox Team

199 Comments to What’s yours stays yours

Justin Vanderhooft
July 7, 2011

thank you, this is much better

Ryan Meray
July 7, 2011

That actually reads like a human wrote it. Thank you.

soundtrackgeek
July 7, 2011

That's what I needed to hear. Thanks!

Peon2000
July 7, 2011

Thanks Dropbox team.
Caring about user security and input like this is why I can confidently continue to use and refer people to Dropbox.

Pawel
July 7, 2011

After last changes in TOS I was worried about “my staff”.. Now it looks much better ;) thanks guys for making it clear

Paul Young
July 7, 2011

Nicely done. Thank you for this.

Abraham Vivas
July 7, 2011

Thank you for clarifying. Although I wasn't too concerned with the previous language, this really just makes it very clear! Thank you for listening to your users!

PB
July 7, 2011

Nice. Finally a company taking responsibility for their ToS!

imandroid11
July 7, 2011

I still don't trust you too little to late as someone that uses this service for work and to keep track of important information once something is said I don't care how you change it the damage is done.

Ashbykoss
July 7, 2011

I had moved away because of your terminology and how it “could be” misused. I will now be moving back since I just can jive ad nice with some of the other services that mimic dropbox functionality.

Billy
July 7, 2011

Go jump in a lake.

Tatham Oddie
July 7, 2011

I don't think you've taken the time to actually understand anything about what is going on here. *Nothing has changed.* They are just wording it even more plainly for the people who didn't understand it the first time around.

dagamer34
July 7, 2011

Legalese is always scary because it's hard to be technical and accurate while still being readable. Thanks for the update!

imandroid11
July 7, 2011

Oooh Billy tough guy

Stacy
July 7, 2011

Good move. I hope this quells some of the concern over your policies and intentions. We place a lot of trust in Dropbox and need to know it's not misplaced.

Johnrighn
July 7, 2011

imandroid, that is one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read.

Johnrighn
July 7, 2011

Thanks for the re-wording to help people feel comfortable with the new ToS.

Miguel
July 7, 2011

ridiculous how dropbox has to explain their TOS over and over again, just because some mentally challenged people cant understand what's in it.

imandroid11
July 7, 2011

They are only changing the terms and the wording due to the people they have lost and the negative publicity that has taking place so far. I do like drop box but when you have something successful and then go and change the “wording” kinda puts people on edge. If they keep it the way it was then fine congrats to Dropbox for not completely blowing it

imandroid11
July 7, 2011

Really ??

Michael York
July 7, 2011

Yes.

Michael York
July 7, 2011

Wow. Dropbox has (by far) the most easily understood TOS I've seen to date. Congratulations. :)

Wilfredo Valle
July 7, 2011

no, I disagree…I commend Dropbox for going the extra mile to make their users feel safe..more companies need to this, go the extra, earn a extra customer….

imandroid11
July 7, 2011

my god what a bunch of little whiners sorry i hurt your feelings

FreeSpkr
July 7, 2011

It reads much better to me.

Harry
July 7, 2011

Thanks a lot guys!

Clay
July 7, 2011

I'm sold, thanks for the great product and great customer support!

Joshua Clarke
July 7, 2011

Thanks for clearing this up, Dropbox team! Many companies, when something “bad” is found out about them, play innocent and sweep it under the rug. Thank you for the great service.

gheedsgreed
July 7, 2011

i don't think you hurt anyone's feelings.

Chopchop
July 7, 2011

Ok… and how would dropbox avoid giving user´s data required by law enforcement? just have curiosity about that item.

Macka
July 7, 2011

reread, it says “To be clear, aside from the rare exceptions we identify in our Privacy Policy”

From the aforementioned Privacy Policy “Compliance with Laws and Law Enforcement Requests; Protection of Dropbox's Rights.
  We may disclose to parties outside Dropbox files stored in your
Dropbox and information about you that we collect when we have a good
faith belief that disclosure is reasonably necessary to (a) comply with a
law, regulation or compulsory legal request; (b) protect the safety of
any person from death or serious bodily injury; (c) prevent fraud or
abuse of Dropbox or its users; or (d) to protect Dropbox’s property
rights. If we provide your Dropbox files to a law enforcement agency as
set forth above, we will remove Dropbox’s encryption from the files
before providing them to law enforcement. However, Dropbox will not be
able to decrypt any files that you encrypted prior to storing them on
Dropbox.”

Billy
July 7, 2011

Umm.. really? The same way you would avoid giving the data from your desktop computer to law enforcement if they showed up at your door step with a warrant!! ie. you would have to give it up.

Dropbox is not above the law. If law enforcement has a warrant, then Dropbox will have to oblige, JUST LIKE EVERY SINGLE OTHER COMPANY!

Macka
July 7, 2011

So, what you are saying is “I don't care that you went out of your way to come to a suitable agreement to please the minority”

Billy
July 7, 2011

I agree with both of you! :)

Billy
July 7, 2011

Please just stop.

Chopchop
July 7, 2011

thanks billy and macka.
I think I missunderstood this sentence “we won’t share your content with others, including law enforcement, for any purpose unless you direct us to”.

It´s clear now.

cjwworld
July 7, 2011

The wording is alot better.  Thanks for the sweat and the changes.  Still luv Dropbox

Flipouk
July 7, 2011

Thanks for clarifying.

Moko2009
July 7, 2011

ka kolon ka bara ka telen

Corrupto
July 7, 2011

I believe you mean show up with a “subpoena”

someoneorother
July 7, 2011

Hey…you guys were reading the discussion over at the 1Password blog, weren't you? :)

JK
July 7, 2011

Fantastic. Thank you.

Pierroi
July 7, 2011

You do realise that the old terms of service were never agreed upon so they have NO LEGAL grounds. They had not yet passed their deadline (Aka july 15) so legally they cannot take your files and if they do you can sue their as to the ground…
You are just ignorant.

Pierroi
July 7, 2011

The wording before got them in a lawsuit…

mc
July 7, 2011

you can have full property over my truecrypt volumes i dont give an ass…

rfk
July 7, 2011

Oh, yeah, and that little incident where they made everyone's files public.

Maybe people will stop overreacting now.

Hamvanger
July 7, 2011

Yeah great new TOS. Too bad it doesnt mean a thing. I left dropbox for spideroak. Thank your government for that. The hidious “patriot act” gives american authorities the right to look at anything they damn well please. Since dropbox is an american company, it just simply has to comply to that unconstitutional molog. The fact that dropbox even has the ability to decrypt MY files is still unacceptable in that context. Thank god there is a zero knowledge alternative!!

Andreas
July 7, 2011

Much better wording! But please learn from this, there has been so many articles about various parts of your TOS now. Before you publish anything, field test it again anad again. I'd be happy to help. I love your service but don't like the constant storms.

Colm
July 7, 2011

They have to respond pretty much the same way as any other website hosted in the US would – which means handing it over, and, if it's demanded of them by a court, keeping secret from you the fact that they handed it over.

If you're concerned about this aspect in particular, it's better to go with one of the “client only encryption” services available:

http://skeptu.com/secure-alter

Fuckarash
July 7, 2011

if only I could trust you.

1) Your marketing text used to claim files were encrypted in a way that made it so even *you* could not see the data.  This was a flat-out lie.  But hey, your false advertising worked, since I trusted that you wouldn't be so unethical as to lie in your promotional materials.  Stupid me.

2) You had a massive security failure, and you covered it up.  Sure, some techies heard about it (usually third party) but for the most part, you decided that your customers didn't need to get an email letting them know that this was the sort of problem that happens at your company. 

3) After you fucked up with security, Arash didn't even pretend to care until it was obvious that there was massive outrage.

4) You edited the ToS so many times in a row that it served mostly as a reminder that your ToS is subject to change on a whim.  So we need to not only trust the agreement as it stands on the website, but we also need to trust some proven liars, as well as all possible future acquirers of your company.  That's… not feasible.

Basically, I think you made a great product, but that you have a really lousy and dysfunctional company.  And it's kind of the predictable result of how your company came to be.

Maybe you two will be competent management in a few more decades but right now, only a fucking idiot would trust you dishonest cunts.  Fortunately for you, the world is full of idiots.

Good luck, and I hope that someday you realize that Arash should never talk to customers (seriously.  never.) and that you'd be well-served to find a way to fire his dishonest, customer-hating, utterly incompetent ass.

Ludwig
July 7, 2011

Way better!

Jeff Chan
July 7, 2011

Well-said. Especially last paragraph.

CaptainObvious
July 7, 2011

Thats why I encrypt everything, I would like to see anyone (dropbox, governments, etc) try to use my data hahah

Gulliver Methuen-Campbell
July 7, 2011

Thank you, that is so much clearer. I, for one, no longer suspect you of being secretly evil.

LegaLars
July 7, 2011

Terms of Service vs Privacy Policy…

You are non-consistent in your statements in Terms of Service vs. Privacy Policy.

The Terms of Service states (quote):
“we won’t share your content with others, including law enforcement”

Meanwhile, the Privacy Policy has a separate paragraph describing law enforcement (quote):

“Compliance with Laws and Law Enforcement Requests; Protection of Dropbox's Rights.
We may disclose to parties outside Dropbox files stored in your Dropbox and information about you that we collect when we have a good faith belief that disclosure is reasonably necessary to
(a) comply with a law, regulation or compulsory legal request;
(b) protect the safety of any person from death or serious bodily injury;
(c) prevent fraud or abuse of Dropbox or its users; or
(d) to protect Dropbox’s property rights.
If we provide your Dropbox files to a law enforcement agency as set forth above, we will remove Dropbox’s encryption from the files before providing them to law enforcement. However, Dropbox will not be able to decrypt any files that you encrypted prior to storing them on Dropbox.”

Some law enforcement officials may strongly disagree with your guarantee to not disclose information.
 
It may be time to let some of your lawyers or legal advisors look into your terms and policies before you get yourself into (more) trouble.

Be correct, be honest, tell the truth!

petenixey
July 7, 2011

1. Did you think that Dropbox's original change of T's and C's was there so that they could ditch this shaky business model of selling people a backup and sharing service and switch to the rock'n roller lifestyle that comes with selling PHP snippets and mass transferring people's holiday snaps onto iStockPhoto?

I'm thinking it sounds at best a little unlikely, no? Maybe given the similarity in the two changes to the T's and C's they are in fact the same thing just worded a little bit more friendly in the latter one. Change 1: make them easier to read, realise some of the wording freaks people out.. change 2: make the wording clearer. Not the most whimsical set of changes I've seen.

2. After their security leak Dropbox emailed everyone involved with the personal cellphone of the CEO and wrote a blog post explaining what happened. I'm with you feller, real Men In Black shit going down there.

3. You'll be hard pushed to find someone more committed to his customers and product than Arash. The guy has to be reminded to go stop programming to go and eat. Something that you'll gradually learn over time is that great products don't come from lousy and dysfunctional companies, you can usually tell whether a company is lousy and dysfunctional from, you know it being lousy and dysfunctional.

The same logic applies to CTOs. You would be simply amazed if you ever saw the Venn diagram of CTO attitude v. product quality. When I first saw it I choked on my cornflakes.  You will literally throw your stressball out the window when you see how small the shared area between companies with “dishonest, customer-hating, incompetent” CTOs and the circle of companies that have 25M users and “great products” is. 

(BTW you'll probably find the world looks altogether rosier with a bit more bloodsugar. Poke your head out from the basement and ask your mum to bring you down an orange juice. Finally, be polite. It may be the internet but people are on the other end of it. Your post was disgustingly rude and you should be ashamed to have written it)

antihero
July 7, 2011

Indeed, these new terms are great, but can you really claim to not disclose the files?

Patrick
July 7, 2011

You're so right!

Uniteddy
July 7, 2011

They can say anything – they can do everything. I killed my dropbox anyway to stay safe.

Diego Sapriza
July 7, 2011

Good stuff

The Lynxy
July 7, 2011

I'm almost certain they cannot stop law enforcement from obtaining your data unless they're hosted in some country that does not have such laws enabling them to do so. With that, if you need to keep data SAFE in Dropbox, consider the use of TrueCrypt

Gabrie van Zanten
July 7, 2011

Truecrypt is NOT safe in this specific case. If law-enforcement (don't know the right english term) wants to look in your files protected by Truecrypt, you have to open up the files. No discussion.

Jake Chance
July 7, 2011

Glad to see people using English instead of Legalese to explain terms. We need more of this.

Chris Oliver
July 7, 2011

Thank you for the changes. However, as some have mentioned, this statement is contradictory to the Privacy Policy.
“we won’t share your content with others, including law enforcement”

Still, this is much better than other sites. Facebook has basically no limitations in its IP License, and Youtube actually states that it can use your content for promotions.

windexh8er
July 7, 2011

Dropbox is still failing on the security side.  Doesn't matter what your legalese states.

Technical Fun
July 7, 2011

I trust you :)

–Regards,
http://techspalace.blogspot.co

Rummler
July 7, 2011

Question:  I'd still like to know what DropBox is doing to combat “fishing expedition” hijinks from Nazi-like shakedown artists such as the RIAA, MPAA, and BSA (Business Software Alliance).

In other words, these idiots could upload literally millions of songs & videos, and observe the traffic.  If a file hash matches, and their file “uploads” virtually instantaneously, they know they have a hit.  Isn't this enough for them to get a warrant / court order so they can demand that you tell them everyone who has any matching file?

We all know these groups make all their money by threatening and terrorizing college students and housewives.  Isn't your service just making it incredibly easy for them to determine mass infringements?

I am not advocating piracy or copyright infringement, but this is an incredibly obvious “side channel” attack that can be easily exploited by the music & film associations.

My question to the DropBox staff is this: are you aware of this, and are you doing anything to protect the privacy of your customers?  Please don't come back with legalese like “As stated, we will comply with any court order…”

Just say “Yes, you are right, that is a realistic scenario with our service” or “No, that cannot happen, and this is why”

Thanks.  I am a paying customer & like your service. I just want to know that you understand the risks.  Even your corporate customers are at risk, not just college students and retirees.  If an employee at Apple has a DropBox account, and his corporate computer has MP3s that he downloaded without permission, Apple itself (whose property was used and employee infringed) would also be liable.

In order to keep your 25M customers, in order to keep fending off the competition, and in order to keep a high valuation, your customers must be confident that they are not exposing themselves by placing their trust in you and placing their files in your cloud.

Just ask MySpace what happens when a once-dominant player falls out of favor.

Guillermo Siliceo
July 7, 2011

Thanks for being so candid about this legal issue, companies are usually assholes in their TOS, i wish more lawyers took your route.

cjwworld
July 7, 2011

could be.  But I would like your response to how they 'would' crack it open?

Thunor Mafanya
July 7, 2011

I don't care about law enforcement.  I'm not doing anything illegal.  I need to protect the IP of the documents I place in DropBox, not hide sick perversions or illegally downloaded songs or videos.  I'm worried about my own creations being distributed against my will.

Perry
July 7, 2011

Thank you.

Reil
July 7, 2011

The thing about TrueCrypt is that you can't prove that it's TrueCrypt file.  If you can't prove what it is, you cannot demand access.

Stuart
July 7, 2011

Seems improved.

Client-side encryption would still provide peace of mind for both intentional and accidental deviations from acceptable privacy standards.

Being physically unable to release our data is preferable to “we promise we won't release your data or accidentally leave it unlocked again”.

Owen Pellegrin
July 7, 2011

Much better than the last language. This makes it more clear to me. Thank you for the clarification.

Comfortablynumb
July 7, 2011

PERFECT!  Dropbox has always ROCKED and this update will stop everyone from panicking.  No service can match what dropbox offers and no team is as helpful.

Jon Williams
July 7, 2011

Hooray for being clear about your privacy policy.  It's nice to see a company be specific about these things.   If there was a court order for someones encrypted dropbox, would you deliver it to law enforcement or would a court order have to be delivered to the individual who owns the dropbox?

Lawyerfromhere
July 7, 2011

Everyone should know that DropBox just as many other companies, will protect your data from anyone, including law enforcement.  In the end if the FBI or CIA comes in and they have a court order to give the data to these agencies, dropbox just as any other company has no choice.  At least DropBox folks are willing to say no and hold their ground as opposed to handing out your information with a simple email request.

Slacker
July 7, 2011

Come on Gabrie, Just like Reil and Thunor, I'm curious as to how someone is going to just “crack open a truecrypt file?”

If anyone wants to know the password to my truecrypt, that's fine with me, but what happens if I forgot it?  I guess that whoever it is might just be out of luck.  I have to many things to remember :)

VirtuallyHere
July 7, 2011

Before you comment, think about this logically.  I suggest this because many of you are not using common sense and are asking for more than is reasonable.
1.  Dropbox has stated they will not share your data.  Believe them or move on.  Keep in mind that when you have Homeland Security with a court order asking for your data than I don't know which companies you might know of that can stop that, but I don't think it's one in the US.
2.  Client Side encryption – do you want client side encryption?  Then go get a service that simply stores your data.  If you want to use the many features of dropbox then there is some risk that you have to accept.  Client side encryption will not work with all of the applications that you can use dropbox to synchronize your data with. 
3.  Dropbox made a mistake – OK, it's true.  But they did not have to come out and tell all of us, they did.  How many companies currently that are not billion dollar enterprises and forced to speak up would actually put their hand out there and say, we had a problem, we will ensure it doesn't happen again. 
4.  If you are storing your data that has every critical piece of information about you, your customers, or anything else that you are terrified of leaking, get a tape drive, back up your data and do not rely on the cloud.  Sooner or later people will realize what the cloud is, aside from the most overused, over analyzed term in today's world.  You are storing your data on a system you have no control over and you are also not paying much money, if anything to do this.  I think people should thank dropbox for a great service and also utilize some common sense before they blame the company.  If you don't know what to ship out to the internet and don't understand how a product such as PGP, TrueCrypt, or an encrypted file works, then don't blame anyone else if your data gets lost at some point.

Ossus
July 7, 2011

This is a much better explanation of the ToS.

David Whatley
July 7, 2011

Best example of taming the lawyers I've seen yet.  I know how hard that is.

Azguy76
July 7, 2011

Much better, thank you.

Pierroi
July 8, 2011

Then go encrypt your own data with truecrypt.

K thx bye.

Adam Perry
July 8, 2011

Are Dropbox's hashes calculated at the end-user's client device, or at the server?  I suspect the latter, but I don't know.  If it's the former, your idea might actually have a chance at working; if the latter, then no files will ever upload instantaneously.

Regardless, I don't think that's a situation worth worrying about.  Anyone with a legal CD has a good chance of coming up with exactly the same hash as an illicit MP3, so long as the rip is accurate and the MP3 encoder is identical (and configured identically, ie, whatever “default” is).

So:  Just because the hash matches, doesn't mean that the MP3 (or whatever) is illegal in any way.  It is perfectly legal to rip my own CDs to MP3 and upload (or back up) the results at dropbox, and there's an excellent chance that my legit and interdependently-created MP3 will contain exactly the same data as someone else's MP3 of the same song.  (Sharing them with others is another story, but that's not what we're discussing…)

This has “fair use” written all over it, and I'd certainly hope that dropbox's team of attack lawyers would jump all over it at the hearing which would doubtlessly precede any actual mining expedition:  No judge will allow a company to root through the data of 25 million people without also hearing what the other side (dropbox) has to say.

(And if they would, I'm moving.)

Mervyn
July 8, 2011

You need to have your “non-legalese” TOS reviewed by your lawyer.  Contractual terms that are differentiated, such as with bold, capitals or quotations for definitions (we, our, Terms, Services, etc) need to be consistent throughout the document.  In more than one case, the word “terms” and “Services” in the new TOS are not used consistently.  Make a list of the special terms in the agreement and do a find/replace, where applicable.

Bob R
July 8, 2011

Right on. I'm a Data Protection Officer. Drop Box is a risk to the proper security of personal information or interllectual property – but for anything else its great.

Dan
July 8, 2011

sounds good to me

Dave Stubbs
July 8, 2011

Whew! 

Dropbox execs – please don't go home early on a Friday and give the lawyers free reign to say what they want.  Their heads are in some arcane place that includes all kinds of weird “what ifs”, which doesn't include much of the real world.  You can't risk killing your business by covering your ass. 

But the ongoing effort to fix this and reign the lawyers in is much appreciated, as is your service.

Robert van de Coolwijk
July 8, 2011

I really love Dropbox. The service is easy, works well and has fantastic features. And is still improving.

But this thing really scared the crap out me and a lot of others I share Dropbox with. This thing went around in under a day and we all dropped Dropbox immediately.

I don't know if I need to feel stupid or hasty. Fact is though I am not alone in this fright. And even after reading this I don't know if I feel safe enough to reinstall it on my main machine, resync all my dear files and recontinue to use this service.

Thedevnull
July 8, 2011

Thank you for doing the right thing and changing this.  The use of humanly readable and understandable language is also deeply appreciated.  Now, perhaps, others who have onerous TOS will change theirs as well!

Scott Reimers
July 8, 2011

very nice improvement.  Thank you!

Fonzy
July 8, 2011

Yay to a better TOS document.

Too bad I've moved all my stuff out of DropBox.

Oh well, the Evernote guys are happy I guess!

Mew!

Dan C
July 8, 2011

Gabrie is correct.  Law enforcement could preset Dropbox with a warrant to obtain your files.  Then, once they have them in hand, they can drag you into court and order you to give them the passphrases necessary to decrypt them.  If you refuse – you are held in contempt, fined and/or jailed.  Of course, this is based on the idea that the fibbi can convince a judge that it's reasonable to make you do this.  But that's not difficult these days.

In leiu of all that, they could sit there and play guess the passphrase.  There are automated tools to do that.  Mine data about you then apply it…  That will “crack” 90% of the passwords people use.  The other 10% – eh, go to jail.

cozmot
July 8, 2011

Excellent clean-up work and a good, fair and comprehensible TOS. Dropbox is the best in its class and I feel sorry for those who abandoned it because they didn't understand the previous language.

Jeffledger
July 8, 2011

Most excellent Dropbox! — If someone has security issues still, that's what programs like Truecrypt are for.  It's about time people started taking responsibility for their OWN data security anyway.

DDW
July 8, 2011

Much better, though it reads a bit like someone (who is not a lawyer) desperately trying to say what they think we want to hear, rather than a legal document.

It does get rid of the problem words from an artist's perspective, “derivative works” and “perform”.   “publicly display” I could understand the justification for, though in my non-lawyer opinion if I share a file through your service, (which I have no intention or expectation of ever doing), I'm the one sharing it not you, so you still don't need such a license.

Now we wait and see if this is the end of it I guess.

al
July 9, 2011

sadly, i think what happened is you're trying to sell DropBox to some larger company and that company wanted that language in the terms so they could screw people like Facebook and Google are happy to do…

al
July 9, 2011

btw, using “lawyerese” is always a clue that someone is trying deceive…just like the crooked healthcare bill that democrats rammed thru a few years ago here in the u.s. – hell, every bill that congress has passed in the last 30 years i'll bet…just plain crooked…

Jeremy Stretch
July 9, 2011

That's a great improvement. Thank you!

David Pesta
July 9, 2011

I agree with all THREE of you!

David Pesta
July 9, 2011

The original page that made everyone confused has over 3500 comments on it. This page that makes people feel better only has 100 comments on it. The new message isn't being heard to repair the damage for most folks. What a shame. :/

Pierroi
July 9, 2011

They didn't mass email everyone.

I personally think that is a big mistake since they emailed everyone saying : Hey look at our stupid policy and now they fixed it and they didn't bother to tell everyone : Yeah… sorry about that, this is what we actually meant if you ignore the legal talk.

Pierroi
July 9, 2011

You can move them back and it will deduplicate back.

Pipe
July 9, 2011

Ok, that's good enough to me to come back.

Niko Paulanne
July 9, 2011

Thank you for changing the TOS to better, I'm happy with your service again! There was too much controversy in first one, so I was seriously thinking switch to other services.

reborn
July 10, 2011

Much better. This certainly helps me relax a bit.

Foo
July 10, 2011

for the tech savvy all this was clear. but for the average user, the above is how it has to read. thx, db-team!

Dandevans
July 11, 2011

Pleased to hear this, thanks for clearing it up!

JAW CRUSHER
July 12, 2011

that's good enough to me to come back.

crusher
July 12, 2011

I am not very understant this article

Peadar G
July 12, 2011

Too bad – I cancelled my Pro subscription.  I'm not interested in language-changes in the terms-of-use.  You can still access my data, since there has been a blanket refusal to implement client-side encryption of files.  Until that changes, I'm not coming back.

Jessica Martinez
July 12, 2011

You can try Nomadesk :)

Jake Stine
July 12, 2011

The very premise of Dropbox prohibits client-side encryption from being viable.  Dropbox uses broad-spectrum diff storage (consolidation of redundant data across user accounts) to greatly reduce the actual amount of data they have to track — based on the premise that most people are uploading files that are in part or in whole very much alike or identical to other files belonging to other users.  Client-side encryption would clobber any attempt to consolidate redundant data.

Yoshi
July 12, 2011

What's to stop you from encrypting things yourself?

thoughton
July 13, 2011

“or sharing them at your direction”

Surely you meant *discretion*? Otherwise that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

It's a little bit disappointing to find mistakes in such an important piece of text, which should've been rigorously checked before being made public like this…

It's a Doozy !
July 13, 2011

I always like to see plain English written. Anything that is overly wordy or legalised is a red flag that someone is trying to cover up something. Well done for making the terms much clearer.

CarolSunshinepa
July 13, 2011

I am not sure what I am ding here. I wuld like to read other people's commnts, I have never done a blog before. Could someone out here help me? I can also call on my blind users team. Thanks again Carol.

CarolSunshinepa
July 13, 2011

This is not a comment but rather a question and I do appreciate answers to my questions. Is it possible to read people's comments directly from the web site without actually subscribing via email? I feel that if I do this then I can read as few or as many as I want to read. If I get to many I will be bombarded with to many emails. I wuld like to get acquainted with the public out here and so is there an affective way of doing this or does one emphaacise his or her friends exclusively? In other words, you just share with people that you kjnow and is this what you are supposed to do? Thanks so d  lok foIanmcuh orward to hearing back from you. Carol.

Anonymous
July 13, 2011

I too cancelled my PRO subscription.  All I ask are 3 things. Store my data.  Protect my data.  Sync my data. Dropbox covers 66% of my request.

I have moved on to another service already, one that does all three.  

Anyone arguing to stay with Dropbox, it's your data, do as you wish.  Any business user would be foolish to go near Dropbox.

my 2 cents.

Aa
July 14, 2011

fuck you dropbox.. i go to ubuntu one.

Alyssa Ana Browning
July 14, 2011

We are all told what goes around comes around.  Astoria, Oregon, you have brutally fucked me over. I loved you at first until so many of your residents started to harass me.  I am now going to court and if you as a people do not take responsibility and hold your mass of immaure and cruel residents accountable there will no mercy on who I will subpoena for my case.  And they will be prosecuted because guess what?  What the evildoers have done to me is just about to come back to them.  And because the very unsophisticated Daily Astorian would not publish this or give someone a chance for redemption instead of prosecution, a lot of their own are going to finally be punished when all is revealed in court about how I was stalked, harassed, taped  on the phone, and in my aparment visually by some actor and many of the young people who really did not get hit enough as children (and I am only saying that because of the nights the police were called as a group of young teenage dumbshits hung by my bedroom window screaming Die Bitch, Die Bitch, so reminiscent of the group of about eight men  in california who screamed these exact words and threatened to kill me for 11 years.   I think I have a case.  Fuck all of you in Astoria or, port angeles wa and sacramento ca who ever would agree with them who did this to me.  I wish so much you all have a horrible run-in with your well-deserved bad karma/

Jack James
July 15, 2011

wtf?

The Internet King
July 16, 2011

Heh, if you believe that you only need fear LEOs if/when you're committing a crime, then you are incredibly naive.

Jim Samuel
July 17, 2011

I cancelled my account after your first terms of service showed that you were claiming ownership of my material. I know that you have revised the terms, but why should I not think your lawyers will try again to grab ownership?

Victor
July 19, 2011

Sorry Dropbox, but your “any password works” bug was unacceptable to me.  It motivated me to look for an alternative, and I found Wuala.  My files are automatically encrypted before they are sent to the server, so I never have to go through the cumbersome activity of encrypting my files myself and Wuala can never peek at my files like a peeping tom.  Even if Wuala did somehow make the stupid mistake of allowing anyone to log into my account to see the list of my files, those files would be useless as they'd still be encrypted.  My partner is now also using Wuala instead of Dropbox and I am warning friends and family alike about your poor security.

allanwhite
July 20, 2011

Carol, this is not a place to go for those questions. Start with answers.com or howstuffworks.com. Good luck!

allanwhite
July 20, 2011

No, they're just covering their backside. You'd do the same if you were running a business (or face unacceptable risks). A necessary evil.

Luis guillermo Quevedo
July 20, 2011

As many others I cancelled my D.Box account. I was happy with your service. But, the terms of service would change again, so I conclude I won´t ever take a service with a unilateral terms maker. Thank you again.

David Hamilton
July 21, 2011

I've followed this issue, and your updates with great interest, and have been impressed by the way that you've repeatedly reworked the conditions to try to meet users' concerns.

To those commenters who rant that you are cancelling your account: Stop and think, just for a second, about what services you are expecting Dropbox to provide (backups, versioning, thumbnails, etc), and how on earth they can actually do that if you don't allow them any rights to work with your files. Ranting blindly about the legal language just makes you sound stupid!

If you find legal language scary and it worries you, take them to a lawyer – and yes, it will cost you (although it will be a lot less than it has probably cost Dropbox to repeatedly redraft their terms) and they may possibly find areas of concern: after all, that's exactly what you're paying them to do.

Frankly, however, most of you have probably agreed to much more intrusive Ts & Cs without ever reading them. Dropbox's sin here is to have drawn your attention to them – you would have much preferred to have stayed in your bubble of ignorance!

David Hamilton
July 21, 2011

So if you lose your encryption key, you're locked out forever? Absolute security is great until you accidentally put yourself on the wrong side of your own security and find that no-one can help you…

crusher manufacturers
July 26, 2011

Why not to update a new article?

Vivek
July 26, 2011

Is this thing, good enough, I mean is it effective…???

Anonymouse Coward
July 27, 2011

Hmm, first. Why isn't their a dislike button. Second. WTF

Robert van de Coolwijk
July 27, 2011

I would totally have agreed with you if those things where actually mentioned in the original TOS that started all this fuzz. But out of the blue their is a TOS that says stuff that scares the crap out of us.

Yea, maybe we are overreacting. But we also never payed a penny (at least most of us) to be able to use this service. So if you feel scared I don't see a reason to go and use something else. I feel in time we will hear the truth, I'm just not going to sit and wait to see which ways it goes.

Litman
July 29, 2011

I must congratulate you for this change and this clarification. I was almost closing my account for that. It is important to be clear on this thing.

CharlieMathews
July 31, 2011

Wow. I went down the comments and wanted to slap commenters while furiously clicking the dislike button.

Are you guys kidding me?

Dropbox provides a fast, easy to use service on many platforms with LOTS of free storage space. All this BS about “I'm worried! They could change their TOS again!? They have access to my data? AHH! I'm switching to another service!”.

Really.

Are you all that nieve?

Every single website you use. Email. Contacts. Callendar. Social Networking. They all have your personal information and the majority of sites out there DON'T KEEP IT SAFE.

Congradulations Dropbox team. Thanks for a good rewrite of your TOS to try to explain things to dumb people. I love your service and I plan to use it for a long time yet!

David
July 31, 2011

Looks like the good old KISS (Keep it simple stupid) routine still works best. It is critical that things be written in a manner that the average person can understand.
Einstein once said – that everything should be as simple as it can be, but not simpler.

pj.weston
August 1, 2011

I apologise for posting this here but I'm having huge problems with Dropbox today – to the point I can't even lodge a support ticket. I can't view my files or respond to requests to share folders. A large number of features seem to be missing from my online account (my desk-top folders are all still there, they are just not replicated online as they were a few days ago). Can someone please help??

pj.weston
August 1, 2011

Now fixed!!! Not sure what happened … but thanks!

SEO Lahore
August 1, 2011

wow!! its an awesome service!

micheal chang
August 2, 2011

There was a lot of useful information in this blog, its a great service

the business line
August 5, 2011

mind blowing article… or information.. now i am waiting for next one,.

Patty
August 11, 2011

I
have read the new terms of agreement and am greatly disturbed by the “as is”
section.

 

The
whole purpose in purchasing your product is to “protect” my files.  Your
program is enabling my ability to be “paperless”; however, if you are taking no
responsibility for the safety of my files, I will need to find another service
and will expect a full refund of any unused months.  Please confirm or
explain.

AlexJames987230
August 15, 2011

I just paîd $21.87 for an îPad 2-64GB and my boyfriend loves his Panasonîc Lumîx GF 1 Camera that we got for $38.76 there arriving tomorrow by UPS.I will never pay such expensive retail prices in stores again. Especially when I also sold a 40 inch LED TV to my boss for $657 which only cost me $62.81 to buy.
Here is the website we use to get it all from, http://BidsFirst.com

Jan-Stefan Janetzky
August 16, 2011

i blindly trust dropbox

Jc
August 16, 2011

I was VERY concerned at the difference between the innocent explanation of the Dropbox's change in Terms of Service released on 07/03/11, and the actual language in those terms.  It was so concerning, the tech side of the Web exploded with articles like:  http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott…  
I see that Dropbox has performed a rewrite to their Terms as a result, to quell the masses.  What still bothers me is that Dropbox would be so clueless as to publish such Terms in the first place, AND have the balls to sugar-coat it with statements like, “We did this to make our policies easier to read and
understand, and better reflect product improvements we've made to Dropbox.”  Guys, I was born at night, NOT last night!  This “behave because we got caught” BS doesn't cut it.  There are other games in town.  Feel that competitive edge getting duller?

Roger Joseph
August 31, 2011

? Huh that's like saying Microsoft and or Google are responsible for your Gmail being their as part of the free service they offer (or loss of business). There is no explicit imply of service. If you paid for it then yes a transaction is “suppose” to garantie the equivalent service. 

But i am always perplexd by users of FREE service threatening to go away if the owners of that said service make a change.

Roger Joseph
August 31, 2011

@wazungu:disqus ”CharlieMathews” I agree sooooo much. It's Like i said to Patty. WTF with the complaining.If they Clarify it people complain, if they don't people still complain. I never read the agreements because i never post any thing i am afraid to loose of feel like it's damning and i have been in the industry over 25 years. Do i post child porn pics NO!! Do i post naked pics of my Wife NO!! because it's private. There is NO reason to read these agreements because nothing more is happening here than anywhere else. If it's private don't put it online. It's the stupid people that keep Doing this shit and messing things up for every one. 

Also for those saying about loosing documents,REALLY; you don't have a backup of you data in multiple locations besides dropbox or the cloud. No over night scripts or backup task to duplicate your “precious data”. I guess it's not that important if you can't think to backup it up locally.

Roger Joseph
August 31, 2011

“Jim Samuel” ; Most if not All online services say this “Owning your data” because if they needed to move your data between services or Servers they do not need to ask your permission so they legally state they “own” it. It's a blanket statement to allow them to move your data around. If they did not then that one person who disagrees (and goes to court) with a product change can cause the company to cancel a roll out and be stuck maintaining an old server/service.

Roger Joseph
August 31, 2011

There is no reason why people can't encrypt their own files with PGP or something else then upload it ??? Weird how people want the next person to do things for them.

It's even more secure since you hold all the keys, unless you use pub/private key system.

Roger Joseph
August 31, 2011

“just covering their backside”: it's read as they are Covering their “back's”

patelanjali
September 3, 2011

Nicely done. Thank you for this

grinding mill
September 14, 2011

I was VERY concerned at the difference between the innocent explanation of the Dropbox's change in Terms of Service released on 07/03/11   http://www.shgrinders.com

conditional access system
September 19, 2011

thanks to share this great things… .. :)

Kevin Gilmartin
September 22, 2011

Glad to see this was ironed out. I was following the original bruhaha that the ToS change caused, but didn't catch this clarification.

Awesome! I can start using Dropbox again. Thanks guys.

Jackson Scholl
November 6, 2011

I do agree with most of you argument, but I should point out that Patty appears to be one of the users who pays for additional space; in this case, taking her business somewhere else is a valid threat. I would like to know, however, what service out there, free or paid, says in the TOS that they will guarantee the safety of their files.

Jackson Scholl
November 6, 2011

I just want to be clear – does this mean that someone from Dropbox, say, looking at our files would be illegal? Not that they would do that, of course.

Daylesford
December 2, 2011

thanks for making this a reality

bidet
January 5, 2012

Thanks for sharing this is great

Loujudson
January 8, 2012

Are there any moderat0rs to remove this spam? It should never have made it to your blog. Poor example for your security; it says it has been there for four months! Pretty lax.
L

Mobilegearuk
January 22, 2012

Need to improve you ranking look no further seo surrey we have some great packages on a budget

przemke
January 26, 2012

ACTA, lots of communication about that in Europe, lots of frustration and uncertainty, how can we be sure that storing our files on dropbox we are on safe side and our files will not be subject for scanning………

Djspeeddemon
January 27, 2012

how can i remove a file from a diferent computer and not have it removed from the original folder (like a copy)? Some people remove a file from a shared folder and the second person no longer finds it? How can i lock the original files at home from a shared folder?

Xenia Oppermann
February 3, 2012

rubbish please do your advertising not on this side

Lee
February 24, 2012

A Dropbox is a nice portal for online storage device, can any one tell me that how is the size of Online Drive of Dropbox, because i will create an account in this.

Diyat
February 24, 2012

Very Good

水着通販
March 6, 2012

Thanks for your great post.I like this very much, please write more about these, wait for your update.

TylerMorgan
March 12, 2012

 i am not Adalto

Odin Android
March 13, 2012

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ver filmes online
April 27, 2012

 nice post guys

ver filmes online
April 27, 2012

This you here in the articles good

Student Health Insurance
April 29, 2012

Good to know you are looking out for customers. 

Hologram Concert
May 2, 2012

Great post. Love this blog!

Really cool post! 

tv online
June 14, 2012

We are confident that the issue addressed here is extremely important for all

Carlos
July 1, 2012

The language in this clause was more technical than it needed to be. We
understand why terms like “derivative works” and “sublicensable” could
sound overly broad or out of place here.

Android Apps Development
July 23, 2012

This post are really good post,so they get good visitor.

NJ Web Design
January 4, 2013

wow! very interesting post and comments.

Steve Basile
January 5, 2013

By allowing links, your comment stream is littered with link spammers. Until you install a plugin for spam control, or disallow inclusion of links in usernames or comments , this is useless and unreadable.

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